Accele 0 Report post Posted March 13, 2007 (edited) Edit: this first part was @ k4l4sh Won't be for long though. The only reason I still am is because classes haven't really picked back up yet as far as studying and papers. I don't get the American whining tone about the uselessness of the UN. Just act according your words. Why don't you simply pull the plug? You're only loosing money through it. and wasting resources. Just dump it ! You don't need it anyway. You got the strongest army, got the highest number foreign bases (100+), you have a virtual impunity in your actions already. Dump it ! Just clean and dry... smile.gif Because it's a great idea, that's why. I don't know what opinion you have of America (well, actually, I do...) but we would never prefer to fight a war that doesn't need to be fought when it could be resolved diplomatically, through a world governing body. We bitch about it because it could be a fantastic organization, but it so far has not lived up to its potential. Edited March 13, 2007 by Accele Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.48 0 Report post Posted March 13, 2007 We’re living in this world now, not in that alternative world were "if's" and "could's" rule the day.... No denial that the strong US presence in Europe had an intimidating effect upon Stalin and his followers. However, to speculate that it would have come to a WWIII is pure fictional projection and can only be answered by "maybe, maybe not". -The question k4l4sh asked is what listing, if you divide a paper in 2 columns with the "wars prevented" and "wars started" would be longest for the US? Do the same with the rest of the western industrial countries... I don't think we should all fall in blind adoration for the US, because you did some things right. There is at least as much that can be criticized and can't stand the daylight. I don't get the American whining tone about the uselessness of the UN. Just act according your words. Why don't you simply pull the plug? You're only loosing money through it. and wasting resources. Just dump it ! You don't need it anyway. You got the strongest army, got the highest number foreign bases (100+), you have a virtual impunity in your actions already. Dump it ! Just clean and dry... :) Or maybe, would you loose something by NOT being in the UN? There would have been no WWIII, but WWII would have simply continued, with Stalin taking what was left f war-torn Europe. Not a pretty scenario. And when the communist system collapsed (is it is inevitable to do), ALL of Europe would be the shit hole that Slovakia and Romania are today. The Chinese meanwhile would spread their influence into Africa and central Asia where they would probably get into a war with India. Again, not a very appealing picture. Overall, I'd rather have the US than not. Sure no one is perfect but I'd say the overall American influence during the last century was positive for the world. As for the UN, I simply think that it's too inflexible. For example I think that in today's world India deserves a permanent seat on the security council, while nations such as Syria never should have been given a temporary seat no matter how many of their oil buddies voted for them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scurvy Dog 0 Report post Posted March 13, 2007 (edited) ALL of Europe would be the shit hole that Slovakia and Romania are today. Have you seen Hostel? Slovakia is actually a really nice country. How about...just lets forget the whole concept of the UN, since its proven a pain in the ass and about all the good it's ever done has had a scandal biting into its butt somewhere? How about... not? And no Accelle, the NWO he was asking about is the one I selected happy.gif. ROFL CLEVER Edited March 13, 2007 by Scurvy Dog Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Feuersturm 0 Report post Posted March 14, 2007 (edited) Who said it was? Find me a country with a spotless record. Uhm, Switzerland? Edited March 14, 2007 by Feuersturm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Count von Phoib 0 Report post Posted March 14, 2007 You haven't read up their record in WW2, did you? But do try... euhmmmm... Liechtenstein? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Biohazard 0 Report post Posted March 14, 2007 Lichtenstein's a country? I thought that was just a joke my geography teacher made :P Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Korona 0 Report post Posted March 14, 2007 Finland has a fairly spotless record. They were played by all the major powers but by "doing the right thing" they actually managed to avoid being a Soviet puppet, when by all rights they should have been. The Finns are really amazing. When you think about it there are plenty more countries with fairly spotless records really. Bhutan for example, never hurt noone. Tibet seems simmilar... etc. etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IconOfEvi 0 Report post Posted March 14, 2007 And see, here's the problem with UN. Tibet doesn't exist, and the PRC will make sure it says that way. Same with Taiwan. They don't exist! And it can all be traced back to...hmm Another thing about China...yes pretty NOW much everyone's for India having a seat on the Permanent Seat...except China and cronies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Feuersturm 0 Report post Posted March 14, 2007 You haven't read up their record in WW2, did you? They did stay out of World War 2, but trading with Germany doesn't make them bad.... Outside that, what are you talking about? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Monkey 0 Report post Posted March 14, 2007 You haven't read up their record in WW2, did you? They did stay out of World War 2, but trading with Germany doesn't make them bad.... Outside that, what are you talking about? oh gosh, I dunno, they just built shit for Germany and let them transport people bound for death camps through their country, along with basically guarding loot stolen from all throughout Europe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlckWyerve 0 Report post Posted March 14, 2007 Even the History Channel got that one right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Monkey 0 Report post Posted March 14, 2007 (edited) Even the History Channel got that one right. man, don't even get me started... Edited March 14, 2007 by Monkey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.48 0 Report post Posted March 14, 2007 ALL of Europe would be the shit hole that Slovakia and Romania are today. Have you seen Hostel? Slovakia is actually a really nice country. I have, and the scariest thing is that having lived in that region, I know that the lawlessness isn't exaggerated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Accele 0 Report post Posted March 14, 2007 When you think about it there are plenty more countries with fairly spotless records really. Let me rephrase that... how many countries with an active foreign policy have spotless records? I'm sure we could name off a hundred countries that have never hurt a fly, but the point is that you've got to crack a few eggs to make an omellette... those countries not making omellettes don't crack eggs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IconOfEvi 0 Report post Posted March 14, 2007 ...but what if they're baking bread - that is the TRUE philosophical question of the day?! And Switzerland has a very active foreign policy when it comes to that word called 'money'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rattuskid 0 Report post Posted March 14, 2007 (edited) You know what they are? Internationally registered vehicles ? How about...just lets forget the whole concept of the UN, since its proven a pain in the ass and about all the good it's ever done has had a scandal biting into its butt somewhere? Icon, I wish Abba wasted some of his precious time in this topic so he could hand you your ass on a plate. I don't even know where he was deployed (I thought Cyprus). http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/dpko/ That's just the conflicts that needed buffers. Sit two factions down and have a third party mediator, and wow, golly gee, more don't seem to start. Imagine that, not foolproof, but better than trying to plug all the holes AFTER the ship is sunk. Edited March 14, 2007 by Rattuskid Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IconOfEvi 0 Report post Posted March 14, 2007 Well...Ill concede that yeh, a lot of operations were done quite well, but the mission depends on first, which country/ies made up the force, and 2, WHAT the forces were allowed to do. I'll take an example of the Somalia mission - when we did it, things were actually looking good, things were going to normal. Then as soon as we leave and US contingent is placed under UN jurisdiction...well. But see, an example I think to reinforce my first point of the soldiers making the contingent - Sex For Food. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rattuskid 0 Report post Posted March 15, 2007 So wait, Somalia is bad because the UN fucked up when the US left? Damn man, any reasoning just deflects off your head like a ping pong ball, don't it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.48 0 Report post Posted March 15, 2007 Actually my problem with the UN is not that they meddle, its that they dont do enough, and the results are often very half-assed. Notably the Rwanda mission, Sinai mission, current Lebanon mission etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neospecz 0 Report post Posted March 15, 2007 The League of Nations...errr, I mean the UN, is fond of condeming, condeming and condeming only through words. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IconOfEvi 0 Report post Posted March 15, 2007 So wait, Somalia is bad because the UN fucked up when the US left? Damn man, any reasoning just deflects off your head like a ping pong ball, don't it? OK, for once I declare you're kinda right here - I forgot to mention that Clinton fucked up after he took office and he didn't want his image bad so he withdrew the troops. Whoops, sorry. Thing about Republics - they change often :blink:... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlckWyerve 0 Report post Posted March 15, 2007 Except that Clinton is a democrat? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scurvy Dog 0 Report post Posted March 15, 2007 key word: republics. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.48 0 Report post Posted March 15, 2007 (edited) A little tangent to the whole eye-opening documentary theme: Clips from a National Geographic documentary on North Korea, shot by a film-maker who managed to get inside by pretending to be a part of a medical aid team: Part 1 Part 2 Thing is, I already knew how bad the situation was on an intellectual level, but seeing it makes a big difference. Edited March 15, 2007 by Mr.48 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlckWyerve 0 Report post Posted March 15, 2007 key word: republics. Sorry, just used to Icon missing half of a word. :P Share this post Link to post Share on other sites