Gunman Kills 31 On Virginia Tech Campus

[dave1001 0]

I thought this was an interesting quote:

American civilization is so ubiquitous and overwhelming that it simply depresses ordinary people, when combined with the constitutional right to bear arms conceived by the Founding Fathers of the American Constitution the results can be disastrous.

 

-http://en.rian.ru/world/20070417/63810811.html

 

Frankly, I don't think this shooting makes much of a difference for gun control in this country. It is a tragedy, yes, but the blame should rest squarely with the psychopath who used the guns. In the US, there's almost a 1:1 ratio of guns to citizens (link), so if the possession of guns is equivalent to violence, we should be seeing a whole lot more shootings than we do in actuality. I'd say that the best way to cut down on this sort of thing happening would be to make counseling or mental health assistance mandatory in some way. The answer isn't to try to take all the guns away, it's to keep people with mental problems away from the guns.

[Nox 0]

@Monkey: I know this is random, but there's this avatar you had a long while back with the animation of an exploding head. I've always wondered where that video came from...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanners

 

Scumbags don't deserve mercy.

Yes, they do.

 

God, I seriously want to strangle him with his own intestines. What a cunt. What a cowardly, disgusting, misanthropic, foolish curmudgeon of a cunt. Fuck that guy, fuck his followers, his family, everything he stands for and everyone who's stopped and even attempted to justify his point of view. This dipshit is why we shouldn't ban guns - so that we can hope there's someone out there he angers just enough to wind up with a bullet between his eyes.

 

Do you know how a person is capable of murder? A person decides that somebody else doesn't count. That because of what they've done, they're no longer a person, not a human being like you and me, and they don't deserve to live. Dehumanization and detachment are prerequisites to murder -- and in fact any criminal activity. And by condemning this man as a monster, as an evil thing separate from us, not a part of a human race, you're doing the exact same thing, following the exact same path, that led a student to kill 32 people and an elderly maniac to call it God's will.

 

Am I saying you're going to kill 32 people? No.

Am I saying you're not more justified in dehumanizing them than they are their targets? No.

Does that make it right? No.

 

Believe me, I understand your position. I'm not defending these people. Phelps is an evil man, and a despicable example of the human race -- but a man, and an example of the human race, nonetheless, and we cannot simply sweep that fact under the rug, ignore it because we don't want to face what it means -- that any of us have the possibility within us for the same. (The great irony being, of course, that in ignoring it, we end up becoming that which we are too afraid to face.)

 

Understanding and mercy are most important when the people in question don't deserve it. (Even if suggesting it results in getting nailed to a piece of wood.)

[Monkey 0]

no, I see where you're coming from. to be honest, I can't see myself going any farther than just punching him. I don't think I'd be capable of killing. But jesus... he just makes me so MAD, you know? I get chills down my spine when I even read his name. I just utterly loathe this man.

 

edit: and yeah, it was from scanners

Edited April 18, 2007 by Monkey

[Sasquatch 0]

Uh...

anyone remember that shadow fall guy's thing about killing people and such?

...and he got banned a day before all this?

O_o

[Pranadevil 0]

@Monkey: I know this is random, but there's this avatar you had a long while back with the animation of an exploding head. I've always wondered where that video came from...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanners

Ah, thanks a lot.

 

-Download Activated-

[Nox 0]

no, I see where you're coming from. to be honest, I can't see myself going any farther than just punching him. I don't think I'd be capable of killing. But jesus... he just makes me so MAD, you know? I get chills down my spine when I even read his name. I just utterly loathe this man.

 

I know exactly how you feel. To be honest, if I was put in a room with him, I think I'd just lose it and throttle the bastard. I'd regret it later, but I doubt I could hold myself back. But as long as I can, as long as I can strive for mercy and understanding, I will. (Pope knew it: only God can always forgive. Which is a fact all the more depressing for an atheist.)

[IconOfEvi 0]

True...true...

 

[Phil 0]

I think Nox hit the psychy of all humans square on the head.

[hawk10314 0]

Yes, because we all know that Cho Seung-Hui practiced his up down left right right left down down up routine to make sure he was well prepared. I'm reading sources that he was using big head mods and improved cross hairs during the shootings.

[Scurvy Dog 0]

@Monkey: I know this is random, but there's this avatar you had a long while back with the animation of an exploding head. I've always wondered where that video came from...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanners

 

Scumbags don't deserve mercy.

Yes, they do.

 

God, I seriously want to strangle him with his own intestines. What a cunt. What a cowardly, disgusting, misanthropic, foolish curmudgeon of a cunt. Fuck that guy, fuck his followers, his family, everything he stands for and everyone who's stopped and even attempted to justify his point of view. This dipshit is why we shouldn't ban guns - so that we can hope there's someone out there he angers just enough to wind up with a bullet between his eyes.

 

Do you know how a person is capable of murder? A person decides that somebody else doesn't count. That because of what they've done, they're no longer a person, not a human being like you and me, and they don't deserve to live. Dehumanization and detachment are prerequisites to murder -- and in fact any criminal activity. And by condemning this man as a monster, as an evil thing separate from us, not a part of a human race, you're doing the exact same thing, following the exact same path, that led a student to kill 32 people and an elderly maniac to call it God's will.

 

Am I saying you're going to kill 32 people? No.

Am I saying you're not more justified in dehumanizing them than they are their targets? No.

Does that make it right? No.

 

Believe me, I understand your position. I'm not defending these people. Phelps is an evil man, and a despicable example of the human race -- but a man, and an example of the human race, nonetheless, and we cannot simply sweep that fact under the rug, ignore it because we don't want to face what it means -- that any of us have the possibility within us for the same. (The great irony being, of course, that in ignoring it, we end up becoming that which we are too afraid to face.)

 

Understanding and mercy are most important when the people in question don't deserve it. (Even if suggesting it results in getting nailed to a piece of wood.)

Wow. I completely agree, but somehow I started entering that "white / black" mentality. Thanks for reminding me.

[Count von Phoib 0]

Uh...

anyone remember that shadow fall guy's thing about killing people and such?

...and he got banned a day before all this?

O_o

He is referring to Phelps. I banned Shadows_Fall because he threatened to kill people. Humans.

Monkey is saying he wants to strangle Phelps with his own intestines. So...

A) He nowhere says he is going to kill them.

B) I have not seen any evidence (an autopsy would do) suggesting Phelps is a human.

C) Therefore, Monkey didnt do anything bad.

[BoB 0]

Ah HAH! He was taking medication!

 

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266523,00.html

 

Meaning likely Prozac! And Prozac has had a REALLY bad history of its users committing suicide and violence and crap like that.

 

http://news.scotsman.com/health.cfm?id=1477962004

 

I expect not to see this on the major news networks though <_<....for one they are nearly underwritten by them...

 

Maybe lets change the topic to banning mind altering drugs like Prozac and Ritalin eh <_<?

Sir, let me introduce you to Mr Cause, and Mr Effect.

[IconOfEvi 0]

Ummm that was the point BoB :P...I was being subtle.

 

And an interesting BBC article...I like this guys articles - always an interesting perspective:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6566763.stm

[BoB 0]

My apologies, in scanning it i thought you were actually serious about how the shift of focus should be onto the effect of said drugs instead. My bad.

[Monkey 0]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/

 

Since it went to the FBI we'll probably never know what was in it, but jeez, this is just messed up...

 

Oh, and I suppose a stopped clock *is* right twice per day...

Edited April 18, 2007 by Monkey

[Rattuskid 0]

Uh...

anyone remember that shadow fall guy's thing about killing people and such?

...and he got banned a day before all this?

O_o

He got banned in a split topic about how he could kill us all without guns, responding to this. In order to be Cho, he'd have to rise from the dead and suddenly decide he didn't need guns to kill people. Totally out of character.

 

Anyway, an undescribed anti-depressant doesn't mean it is Prozac. You have three chemicals in your brain to relay messages: Seratonin, Dopamine and Norefidefrin. Depressed people have issues with one two or all three 'reuptaking', meaning they don't convey across the brain and stagnate in their point of origin, fucking everything up. Now, you can put people on drugs to help them along, called 'reuptake inhibitors' or 'anti-depressants'. The problem is it's a crapshoot picking the RIGHT chemicals that are effected, and being on Prozac (that effects Seratonin) when you have a problem with Dopamine will magnify your issues. It's not that the drug is 'bad' it's just like playing mental health Russian roulette.

 

Now stop being an alarmist dumbass, Icon.

[Sasquatch 0]

Uh...

anyone remember that shadow fall guy's thing about killing people and such?

...and he got banned a day before all this?

O_o

He is referring to Phelps. I banned Shadows_Fall because he threatened to kill people. Humans.

Monkey is saying he wants to strangle Phelps with his own intestines. So...

A) He nowhere says he is going to kill them.

B) I have not seen any evidence (an autopsy would do) suggesting Phelps is a human.

C) Therefore, Monkey didnt do anything bad.

Didn't mean it that way, I meant to say it's eerie that someone threatened to kill people, and bragged about said killing ability the day before the shootings. I didn't mean to imply anything relating to monkey, and I apoligise if it seemed so.

[Kaiser_Smeghead 0]

For once I actually agree with Rush Limbaugh.

[Rattuskid 0]

Sasquatch fails at reading dates/time...

 

Posted: Apr 16 2007, 12:52 PM

 

Posted: Apr 16 2007, 4:58 PM

[Sasquatch 0]

Eh. My bad.

[stumpster 0]

For once I actually agree with Rush Limbaugh.

QFT.

 

Now excuse me while I go hang myself.

[Scurvy Dog 0]

Eh. My bad.

lol, yeah it probably got confusing when the topic was split away from the main one.

[Korona 0]

Limbaugh is wrong is as far as a virtual gun can't hurt anyone, whereas a real gun is deadly.

 

Thus the arguements against gun control need to go much further than those against "computer game control" given the potential harm each can do.

 

Specifically it needs to show that gun users will act responsibly and not try to use them innapropriatly.

 

If the analogy with computer games shows anything it is that a minority of users CAN'T be trusted to use the things responsibly.

 

My personal take on Gun Control is that the age limit on buying a gun should go up to 35. People below that age need a 35+ year old to take responsibility for them to use that gun, so hopefully it will be down to mature adults to informally police who is able to carry a gun. Clearly its different giving your son a rifle to giving a pair of semi-automatic pistols to the nutter in F block. Also ammo should be sold in small boxes. Then anyone who suddenly stocks up on ammo will be easy to flag. If they happen to be clinically insane and writing about how they want to kill everyone... well...

[mastermind 0]

When I go to the shooting range for my pistol class I go through 50 rounds or so in an hour of shooting. This kid bought 50 rounds to go with his Glock. That's hardly anything. Also, I don't see why you'd need someone over 35 around to responsibly use a firearm. If you have been taught how to handle a weapon there shouldn't be a problem. You do need to be 21 to purchase a handgun in the US as well, so it already is a fairly high age limit for purchasing. Hunting weapons require you to be 18. There is no reason that a legal adult with a regular background should be denied a gun simply because some lunatic shoots up a school, and there's no reason that if I buy a couple hundred rounds of ammo to spend a couple hours on a firing range that I should be flagged as suspicious.

[Accele 0]

They have pistol classes at MIT?