Ultra Heavy Tanks

[BoB 0]

No, it wouldnt be able to move for a while. It's guns should still fire ;)

[Bismarck01 0]

A rather comic situation really:

 

Allied soldier: HA, the things out of fuel! No we can just walk right up to it! Ha ha, stupid Germans!

*begins to walk calmly to the P-1000*

*turret turns*

Allied soldier: Oh shi-

*get blown to hell by a 380mm gun*

[Comrade Raptorkov 0]

Don't think you could turn the turret if the fuels out, I'm pretty sure it'd be rather hard to hand crank that bitch. :lol: But 1 of the smaller guns will do, like 1 of the 88s, as they were hand cranked to begin with. I know tanks have the emergancy hand crank to turn and aim the turret, not sure about that though...

[Bismarck01 0]

But hey! If it had batterys which were charged when the p-100 wa moving. And the batterys provided a heawy duty electric motor the power to turn the turret.

[Korona 0]

Yeah instead of using fossil fuels lets use electricity... O wait... :P

 

Assuming a naval vessel is the comparison, then I think you would struggle to move the turret without some kind of mechanical power. Then again a P-1000 powered by a massive team of slaves because there is no fuel left would be a very ammusing comment on the German war machine in general :P

[0r30 0]

And i bet that the Germas would put their best souldiers to crew the P-1000 which makes it even more difficult to bust the track.

What difference would a good crew have to make it harder not to 'bust the track's?

 

Unless you rolled that thing along the bottom of a gorge it would be kind of hard to get in a hull down position....

[Korona 0]

Maybe the crew's stats give a 30% modifier to HP

[Logan Hartke 0]

This isn't the Axis History Forum, Bismarck. You actually have to tell us why the Germans would be better, we don't just accept it at face value.

 

Logan Hartke

[Count von Phoib 0]

I mean, history didn't exactly accept the Germans were better either :P

[0r30 0]

Sure didn't Einstien go back in time and erase Hitler from history anyway?

 

oh wait...

[Bismarck01 0]

This isn't the Axis History Forum, Bismarck.  You actually have to tell us why the Germans would be better, we don't just accept it at face value.

 

Logan Hartke

What i mean is that if the Germans put their most experiensed ppl to crew the tigers, why wouldn't they put them in the P-1000? Thhe firtzes weren't stupid, anybody would realise that the comabt efficency would be maxed if you put ppl to crew it who know what theyre doing.

 

And beacuse the experienced crewmembers can operate the guns more efficently and accuratley it makes the trak busters raid difficult because ofd more accurate fire.

Edited July 3, 2007 by Bismarck01

[Logan Hartke 0]

What I don't think you understand is that it has a serious minimum range. Since it's intended to only engage targets km away, get within a few hundred meters and your in its guns dead zones. Just like US PT boats against Japanese destroyers, get in close and the big guns can't hit you. That's what you don't understand at all.

 

It's not made to fight anything within a couple hundred meters of it. Just like a battleship vs frogmen, my money's on the frogmen, I don't care if Lord Nelson is commanding the ship.

 

Logan Hartke

[Korona 0]

Sure didn't Einstien go back in time and erase Hitler from history anyway?

 

oh wait...

who?

[Bismarck01 0]

What I don't think you understand is that it has a serious minimum range. Since it's intended to only engage targets km away, get within a few hundred meters and your in its guns dead zones. Just like US PT boats against Japanese destroyers, get in close and the big guns can't hit you. That's what you don't understand at all.

Yes thats right but would'nt there be other Anti-air vechiles supporting it. They have lesser range and would rather easily cover the 88s dead zones.

[flyby 0]

It's not a tank, but an mobile artillery piece...

It's not destined to have any close combat capabilities.

 

We know close to nothing about this vehicle. As far I know, there isn't any drawing, so it is all about assumptions and speculations.

What's the point then to discuss all these assumed defense capabilities of the P1000?

It's not because a scalemodeler decides to place a few twin 88's on his imaginary model, that it suddenly becomes a religion...

[Korona 0]

Hehe. Also, there seems to be the tacit assumption that ground based AA is an effective defense against ground attack aircraft, which it blatantly isnt.

[Bismarck01 0]

Also true. But it isn't completley useless.

[flyby 0]

It is, because the very fundaments upon which is being discussed are, at best, "artistic impressions".

 

I can however make several comments, from an engineering point of view, about the proposed designs, as you can find them on the net. But may be I should keep those for a special Blitz2 paper?

[Count von Phoib 0]

Nah, go ahead, dazzle us :)

[FECrtn2 0]

While we're on the subject of slapping on 88s onto the P-1000 to improve its self defense, what about some MACHINE GUNS! Wahaha!! :D

[Feuersturm 0]

Oh thats brilliant. Waste more money on machineguns for a sitting duck rather then put them in the hands of some far more useful infantry. At the point of the war where this would have been proposed, the Germans were lacking the basics, that being trucks, ammo and small arms. Hitler was too focused on these huge projects and not enough of the crutials.

 

Which is why this tank would do absolutely shit for the Germans. That metal and factory space would be better used on other tanks and trucks.

Edited July 5, 2007 by Feuersturm

[Leclerc47 0]

Hitler was too focused on these huge projects and not enough of the crutials.

 

Before and at the begin of the war, surely. But during the year 1943, he decided to stop these huge projects (P1000 and P1500 among other things) for something of more reasonable ,if we think that the Maus and the E-100 are reasonable...

 

For the P1000, i agree with flyby about the fact that it's a mobile artillery piece. With this two canons from a cruiser, it is for a long range attack purpose.

But where i disagree, it's when he says that the P1000 is not a tank, because a mobile artillery piece is classified as tank.

 

It seems that the P1000 would have been equipped with a secondary cannon which is the main cannon of the Maus! But it seems that it's fixed at the frame, so i guess it reduce it's efficiency.

 

Anyway, to put it in the game, i don't think it's a good idea, because it's huge (with the problems which came with)!

 

But i have a different thing with the other Ultra heavy tank: the P1500.

Why? Because of his main gun: the 80cm Kanone (E) Schwerer Gustav.

This cannon was the powerfullest artillery of the world and prove it at Sebastopol.

I think it could be a good idea to implement it as a superweapon, unlock by the final developpement of the tank way.

[0r30 0]

I think it could be a good idea to implement it as a superweapon, unlock by the final developpement of the tank way.

Yea! Me too! I think we should also add flying saucers and helicopters too! because the Germans had schematics of them as well don't ya know!

[JokersAce 0]

IIRC, the same gun is going to be in Blitz, but not on the P-1500 or whatever..

[flyby 0]

It seems that the P1000 would have been equipped with a secondary cannon which is the main cannon of the Maus! But it seems that it's fixed at the frame, so i guess it reduce it's efficiency.

The most reasonable analysis made about the P-1000 Ratte project can be found here

 

The 128mm anti-tank gun’s location on the Ratte is a point of contention among historians. Most believe it would have been mounted within the primary turret, though some think a smaller secondary turret would have been mounted at the rear of the Ratte near the engine decking. The rear turret makes more sense logistically, but the surface area of engine decking at the rear of the Ratte might have made this unrealistic. A third option would have been a hull-mounted version of the 128mm gun similar to that seen on the Jagdtiger. This would have at least been able to engage nearer targets than either of the other options.

 

Having it as a fixed gun into the hull, like the Jagdtiger, would force the entire vehicle to turn towards a target. Considering the size and weight of the vehicle that would mean an enormous stress on the tracks, wheels and suspension. Besides, I doubt it would be able to turn very easily, unless on a perfectly flat and hard surface...

If it were to have a 128mm gun (as often suggested on the net) the only usable position would be on the main turret, possibly with a superimposed, independent turret.

 

Nowhere it has been suggested they were thinking about using 88's, so the scale model as put forward in this topic, is a pure speculation.