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Superior build quality?  All the parts come from fucking Korea, same as America.

Actually the car I pictured most likely comes from Taiwan

 

@ Logan, given we are driving on well maintained tarmac the key thing that will most likely fail is the engine, or some other peice of technical gubbins. Even a chassis made from reinforced girders and ceramic won't help with engine wear, thus there is a clear difference between a car being physically robust, and having reliable workings.

Reliabile, well made engines is something German car makers in particular, and Japaneese as well do very well...

 

@ Flyby, the AK47 is directly based on the MP44/45, so I don't agree that decent German weapon designs wouldn't have been continued just because they lost the war.

Edited by Korona

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@ Logan, given we are driving on well maintained tarmac the key thing that will most likely fail is the engine, or some other peice of technical gubbins.  Even a chassis made from reinforced girders and ceramic won't help with engine wear, thus there is a clear difference between a car being physically robust, and having reliable workings.

Reliabile, well made engines is something German car makers in particular, and Japaneese as well do very well...

 

@ Flyby, the AK47 is directly based on the MP44/45, so I don't agree that decent German weapon designs wouldn't have been continued just because they lost the war.

Nonsense. I'd apply robustness/durability to the automotive components when referring to the vehicle as a whole. Putting up with the wear and tear of working pickup truck use on a daily basis would qualify the vehicle for both robustness and reliability.

 

Make things tough and they're likely to last.

 

 

 

Also, the AK-47 was not directly based on the StG 44 by any means. That's just another well-maintained myth that you're helping to keep alive. In fact, the AK-47 owes more to previous American weapons (double locking lugs, unlocking raceway, safety, and trigger mechanism) than it does to the StG 44.

 

Logan Hartke

Edited by Logan Hartke

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Why do american cars guzzle up so much gas? What's the use for a 6 liter V-8 engine in a suburban/urban enviroment?

 

@Logan: my previous statements weren't aimed directly at you, but at the general population of the USA. Like soccer moms.

Edited by MehMan

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I'm waiting on a license but my father is going to give me his Mercedes benz

...

I have a 66 Nova SS under covers for me probally for my 21st birthday that I've been working on with my father every other weekend.

my dad will give me his Z3.

I think I was born into the wrong family...

I'm by no means rich...I live in ny just above the poverty line :lol:

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Nonsense.  I'd apply robustness/durability to the automotive components when referring to the vehicle as a whole.  Putting up with the wear and tear of working pickup truck use on a daily basis would qualify the vehicle for both robustness and reliability.

 

Make things tough and they're likely to last.

 

 

Also, the AK-47 was not directly based on the StG 44 by any means.  That's just another well-maintained myth that you're helping to keep alive.  In fact, the AK-47 owes more to previous American weapons (double locking lugs, unlocking raceway, safety, and trigger mechanism) than it does to the StG 44.

Not really, a big tough engine that is poorly enginiered won't last that long. However the poor reliability has nothing to do with how robust it is.

 

Robustness means how well it can stand up to how it's treated. The reliability of German engines isn't because they make them big and tough. On the contrary, they are made to a very high standard but probably wouldn't stand up to that much rough treatment. Engines break through the small defects in their enginiering getting aggrivated over time. A big dramatic faliure is really unlikely, its the ball bearing that wore out or the valve that stuck.

 

And with the MP44 -> AK47 I think the heritage is clear :P

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Why do american cars guzzle up so much gas? What's the use for a 6 liter V-8 engine in a suburban/urban enviroment?

Not all Americans live in Urban/Suburban enviroments, despite what the movies may show. Many live in rural or grey areas. For example, I live in a development where the houses are like 200 feet from one another and because of a plethora of crotch dumplings running around like twats the speed limit is 25... but it takes me ten minutes to get to the grocery store and an hour fifteen to get to work.

 

It's America. We do because we can. Also because despite us bellyaching our gas prices are still like half of what Europeans pay at the pump. You can get away with debt, or with less pay in the long run. We don't like the idea of putzing along on the highway in a 1.4 four banger. Time you can never get back.

 

Reliabile, well made engines is something German car makers in particular, and Japaneese as well do very well...

 

You know if you said similar about German/Japanese literature, you'd be considered a slob. If you said similar about German/Japanese women, you'd be a pig. If you said the same about German/Japanese work ethic you'd be a neanderthal... and if you said that about their culture you'd be a racist.

 

Every nation that produces a lot of automobiles is bound to have companies/models which are utter crap. For a good while, Americans happened to produce the most cars/trucks. Hence, the most crap as well. That still doesn't mean there aren't bad German or Japanese cars. Hell, Opel made some real stinkers back in the day, and you couldn't pay me to drive some Mercedes models even in pristine condition, and every Japanese automaker from Honda to Mitshubishi has models/years best avoided. Although, I have to admit it's hard to recall a shitty Nissan.

 

It's just annoying nationalist intentions are so acceptable when you're talking about multinational corporations. As though the same car, if badged a 'Pontiac Vibe' is shit because the guy who signed the prints was named 'Smith' but the same car badged a 'Toyota Matrix' is a godsend because the guy who signed his name on that one was named 'Masimuhito' or whatever.

 

Also I agree with Logan. Cars aren't run in a vacuum of space. Wear is just damage on a far smaller scale than slamming into a brick wall. Something resitant to strains and wear would be generally both robust and reliable, and something that is not would generally be neither. A good example would be my old Dodge. Got into an accient in the right front quarter panel, and nothing in the engine bay was the cause of its death miles and miles later.

 

Also thanks for the huge derailment guys.

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I'm waiting on a license but my father is going to give me his Mercedes benz

 

I'm by no means rich...I live in ny just above the poverty line :lol:

Well either you're not poor, or you were poor and stole a Mercedes Benz.

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I'm waiting on a license but my father is going to give me his Mercedes benz

...

I have a 66 Nova SS under covers for me probally for my 21st birthday that I've been working on with my father every other weekend.

my dad will give me his Z3.

I think I was born into the wrong family...

Well, my dad was driving an old '97 VW Jetta, and got hit by a Dunn-Edwards paint truck.

 

Basically, DE gave him down payment on anything within reason to keep from any possible lawsuit (the driver of the truck literally backed up into his car at an intersection). So, he threw it down on a used Z3. Turns out that the damage to the Jetta was all cosmetic, and the car shop fixed it in about 10 minutes.

 

:lol:

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I side with Logan on the 'robust' topic. But speaking specifically about engines; I, in my lifetime have had the pleasure of knowing a few extremely robust engines. Specifically the Mitsubishi 4G63, Mitsubishi 6A12, Nissan CA18 and the GM Ecotec V6.

 

The 4G63, 6A12 and CA18 are well known for their appetite for boost, each capable of putting down at least 200bhp per litre at full tilt, that means about 400hp. The 4G63, at the raggedy edge can do 500hp per litre, meaning a supercar romping 1000hp (read: Atlantic Motorsport).

My history with these engines?

4G63 : 11 year old Mitsu, never had problems. Regular stuff like fluids, filters, belts.

6A12 : 7 year old Proton, also impeccable. Only problem was the altenator. $50 fix and its running smooth as ever.

CA18 : Bloody old Datsun, at 19 years, its even older than me! But its still running over in KL.

GM Ecotec : I dont know much about this engine, but Ive heard that over in the States, on the salt flats, these engines have been pushed to 1500hp.

 

All these engines, as far as I know, in the cars they've been in are extremely reliable. The Japs engines used an extremely robust cast iron engine block. This means little stress under heat and stronger components. This translates into reliability.

 

France on the other hand likes to be modern, using aluminum or alloys in their engines. Giving them a dismal performance in the Top Gear survey for reliablility.

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We don't like the idea of putzing along on the highway in a 1.4 four banger. Time you can never get back.

How does driving at the speed limit in a 1.4 litre car give you any more time in your life than driving at the speed limit in a 6 litre truck? The acceleration may be better superficially, but hey try putting it in a lower gear if you need to overtake something. In third my 1.2 litre 206 is very fast indeed.

Reliabile, well made engines is something German car makers in particular, and Japaneese as well do very well...

 

You know if you said similar about German/Japanese literature, you'd be considered a slob. If you said similar about German/Japanese women, you'd be a pig. If you said the same about German/Japanese work ethic you'd be a neanderthal... and if you said that about their culture you'd be a racist.

Every nation that produces a lot of automobiles is bound to have companies/models which are utter crap. For a good while, Americans happened to produce the most cars/trucks. Hence, the most crap as well. That still doesn't mean there aren't bad German or Japanese cars. Hell, Opel made some real stinkers back in the day,

It's just annoying nationalist intentions are so acceptable when you're talking about multinational corporations.

 

I don't get why you think I am being somehow racist or something. There are only a handful of car companies in any country, it's hardly an overstatement to treat so few companies collectivly, especially when there is something common between them.

American car companies have had a pretty isolated market. The conditions have been like a soft fuzzy bed where the government brings you warm cocoa and cake in the form of tax breaks and subsidies. If you look at Japan, their car industry was born from totally different conditions. The need to make better cars for cheaper so as to compete in hostile foreign markets led to them making high quality cars for a reasonable price, with loads of extras "as standard". The Germans just went for out and out quality and now do it very well. Heck the Golf GTI is a cheap car and it's kickass.

 

Heh and Opel are a General Motors company :P

 

 

Wear is just damage on a far smaller scale than slamming into a brick wall.

And stop arguing about semantics. There is a clear difference between a rugged vehicle and a presicision enginiered one. An accident isn't a test of reliability. Hey I survived 5 accidents, that makes my car reliable!

No it makes it rugged.

Reliable is continuing to run after years of use.

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My 1.4 Fiesta gets to nearly 110mph on the motorway... fast enough for an instant ban. Fast enough that you wont often drive at that speed. Fast enough? Yes.

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Just as with computers, most of the conversations about cars, their "power" and speed, it all boils down to a bragging contest.

This is apparently just the same.

There are some fundamental differences between the American and European cars, mainly because the markets themselves are different.

We are different, we think differently, we eat and work in a different way, so yeah, it's no surprise then we drive different cars...

 

 

My criteria for a car are all about a mix of passion and down to earth needs:

-I have a weak spot for Italian cars and their design

-I needed a reasonable powerful car (I hate cars where you have to "prepare" passing someone, due to failing HP’s).

-Having 3 kids and not wanting a van (ugly boxes) or SUV truck (gas-guzzlers), a break did seem like a good solution.

-Had to be a turbo diesel = long-livety and low fuel consumption

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In third my 1.2 litre 206 is very fast indeed.

Im afraid to ask;

What is your justification of 'fast'?

Can accelerate in a few seconds to the point where I can pass the guy in front of me at 20 or 30 mph faster than he is going.

 

Put a super mini in 3rd. It's fast even with a small engine. Because so many people drive conservativly/drive automatics they just have no conception of what an engine can do past 3,000 rpm...

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In third my 1.2 litre 206 is very fast indeed.

Im afraid to ask;

What is your justification of 'fast'?

Can accelerate in a few seconds to the point where I can pass the guy in front of me at 20 or 30 mph faster than he is going.

 

Put a super mini in 3rd. It's fast even with a small engine. Because so many people drive conservativly/drive automatics they just have no conception of what an engine can do past 3,000 rpm...

I think you mean quick. Big diffence between fast and quick. My current car is niether :P

 

I used to have a 1974 Buick Riviera. I rebuilt the 455 myself and basically turned it into a Grand Sport engine. heads, intake, carb, the whole 9 yards. Thats was a very very fast car. The speed-o went to 120mph, i had burried the needle many times. But it was so big, it was far from quick.

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How does driving at the speed limit in a 1.4 litre car give you any more time in your life than driving at the speed limit in a 6 litre truck?

It doesn't. But unless you see black and white or red and blue typically Americans speed. The 'limit' is usually pretty low and closer to a socially understood suggested minimum. I fly to work at around 80mph (no I'm not converting it for your lazy European asses), in both my old clunker and this newer car.

 

And stop arguing about semantics.  There is a clear difference between a rugged vehicle and a presicision enginiered one.

 

The argument wasn't that there is no difference between reliability (which in and of itself is different than precision engineering, a Lamborgini is surely that, but I wouldn't expect it to reach 200k miles on the odometer) and robsutness, but just that generally when a car is one (save a few exceptions) it's also the other. Kinda like how a gun that is accurate is also usually precise, even though they mean differing things.

 

Can accelerate in a few seconds to the point where I can pass the guy in front of me at 20 or 30 mph faster than he is going.

 

Put a super mini in 3rd.  It's fast even with a small engine.  Because so many people drive conservativly/drive automatics they just have no conception of what an engine can do past 3,000 rpm...

 

Korona, you drive a car geared towards fuel economy, and the fact you can pass other drivers in your nation full of twisty tiny roads and slow drivers doesn't prove much. I used to have a four-banger clunker that had twice the displacement of yours and a worn-leather stick to reign her in. Granted, the car was light and accelerated like a bat out of hell (normally asperated, no lag) and could get up to decent speed on the highways... but it sure as hell was neither the fastest thing on these roads nor even all that far above average to be honest. You claiming an economy car is fast is what gives rise to cultures like ricers and chavs. Just. Don't. Tell your hamster to run a little slower under the hoo... er, bonnet over time if you want to ease the blow to your ego meanwhile, though.

 

Apart from the dickwaving, some of the folks here really do drive nice cars. It's pretty awesome to be on a forum where I'm median age for a change.

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I'm not arguing semantics any more it's utterly pointless. If you can't understand what is being said when it is so perfectly clear then any attempt at further explaination is a waste of time.

 

The bottom line is that (with a few noted exceptions) american cars are shit. So are were british cars. The difference is that the US government bailed out their motor industry while in the UK we left it to the crows.

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I'm not arguing semantics any more it's utterly pointless. If you can't understand what is being said when it is so perfectly clear then any attempt at further explaination is a waste of time.

 

The bottom line is that (with a few noted exceptions) american cars are shit. So are were british cars. The difference is that the US government bailed out their motor industry while in the UK we left it to the crows.

You are discarded!

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