Three Abrahamic Faiths

[Leonardofury 0]

Thought this was worth sharing.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42p2SO5wQag

[Korona 0]

Another guy misses the point and gets applauded for it... nothing changes. Too bad that the BBC is full of people like this now :P

[Opals25 0]

Try living and growing up in the heart of Fundamentalist Christian America and try and not hate them and everything to do with them, it's really god damned hard. The amount of "Truth" Jesus fishes eating Darwin ones, or "There is no right and left, only right and wrong" bumper stickers I see is enough to make me want to kill someone.

[Mr.48 0]

I think hes got it all backwards. It assholes that happen to be religious that generally are the fundamentalist extremists, and not religion that turns perfectly nice people into savages.

 

Just look at all the atrocities committed by secularists and atheists in this century alone.

[Opals25 0]

Just look at all the atrocities committed by secularists and atheists in this century alone.

 

There's a huge difference here, people don't kill people in the name of Atheism, people don't blow up buses for it, the fact they are is a coincidence as much as the fact Hitler and Stalin both had mustaches. It's the fact that people kill others in the name of a religion that's the problem, people that could very well have been normal members of society had they not been raised and indoctrinated with the idea that anybody that doesn't believe in you should die.

Edited January 26, 2008 by Opals25

[Mr.48 0]

Just look at all the atrocities committed by secularists and atheists in this century alone.

 

There's a huge difference here, people don't kill people in the name of Atheism, people don't blow up buses for it, the fact they are is a coincidence as much as the fact Hitler and Stalin both had mustaches. It's the fact that people kill others in the name of a religion that's the problem, people that could very well have been normal members of society had they not been raised and indoctrinated with the idea that anybody that doesn't believe in you should die.

 

Thats exactly my point, these kinds of people kill because they're murderers, not because they believe in god, or are atheists or what have you. And you can teach people to kill in the name of political ideology just as easily as in the name of religion, not to mention the people that kill out of simple greed and lust for power.

Edited January 27, 2008 by Mr.48

[Eradicator 0]

That was incredibly epic and spot on, I do say, spot on (had to throw that in).

[Opals25 0]

Just look at all the atrocities committed by secularists and atheists in this century alone.

 

There's a huge difference here, people don't kill people in the name of Atheism, people don't blow up buses for it, the fact they are is a coincidence as much as the fact Hitler and Stalin both had mustaches. It's the fact that people kill others in the name of a religion that's the problem, people that could very well have been normal members of society had they not been raised and indoctrinated with the idea that anybody that doesn't believe in you should die.

 

Thats exactly my point, these kinds of people kill because they're murderers, not because they believe in god, or are atheists or what have you. And you can teach people to kill in the name of political ideology just as easily as in the name of religion, not to mention the people that kill out of simple greed and lust for power.

No, you're missing what I said. They become murders because of their religion. They're taught from the day they're born (In fundamentalist Muslim cultures for my example) that it is a good thing to die for your religion, and to kill the Jews. If they weren't brought up with this, they wouldn't be murderers, if they were brought up and taught love and compassion and to live and let live then they wouldn't be murderers. Psychotics that orchestrate the death of 1, or 1 million people will always exist, what I'm saying is that blind religious indoctrination makes so many more.

[Mr.48 0]

No, you're missing what I said. They become murders because of their religion. They're taught from the day they're born (In fundamentalist Muslim cultures for my example) that it is a good thing to die for your religion, and to kill the Jews. If they weren't brought up with this, they wouldn't be murderers, if they were brought up and taught love and compassion and to live and let live then they wouldn't be murderers. Psychotics that orchestrate the death of 1, or 1 million people will always exist, what I'm saying is that blind religious indoctrination makes so many more.

 

What difference does it make if I killed a bunch of people in the name of god, money, communism, racial purity etc.? The victims are still dead. So why isnt this guy coming down hard on China or North Korea? Because attacking religion is more fashionable these days, so I dont put much stock in his opinions.

 

 

Dont get me wrong, I'm an agnostic myself but I see no harm in religion as long as you arent a raving lunatic, whereas this guys just scoffs derisively at everyone who isnt enlightened like him.

[Opals25 0]

Because we criticize China for her human rights problems, we condemn and embargo North Korea for what they do, just because he isn't right here doesn't mean that he doesn't. What he's implying is that Religion gets a free pass to be bat shit without criticism. We allow it to happen, and pass it off as their culture, as just what they do, and attempts to criticize it is off limits when it shouldn't be.

 

I also see no harm with religious moderates, most of my friends are moderately religious people, and it's not something I respect them any less for. What he's saying is that the tolerance by religious moderates for people who are the fundamentalist is a problem though. They continue to allow these people to be bat shit insane under the same banner when they should be standing up and saying "Hey, I don't agree with this, and I'm sure most people like me don't either, so would you politely stop making us look bad." or something to that affect.

[Eradicator 0]

/agree Opals

 

Any criticism of Israeli's heavy handed tactics and human rights violations is almost always passed off as some kind of antisemitism. Any criticism of Islam is considered racist or ignorant as they are a "peaceful religion", same goes for Mormonism to a certain extent. Why shouldn't people be allowed to ask Romney about his religion? If he actually believes that shit I certainly would not want him to "lead the free world".

[Mr.48 0]

The funny thing is that I agree with both of you, what I dont like is the derisive tone this Brigstocke character is taking. Because the fact is that most of the people that subscribe to the religions he criticizes do abhor what the extremists do, and he just dismisses them out of hand. basically I feel like hes just a douchebag whose rant I kind of agree with, but that doesnt make him any less of an idiot.

 

The fact is that most of the shit being slung at Israel is unfair, most Christians do care about their fellow man and there is quite a bit of unfair discrimination against moderate Muslims because of what some turbaned wackos do.

Edited January 27, 2008 by Mr.48

[Opals25 0]

He's a Comedian, would it be amusing if he was very serious about it? Of course not, he's presenting his beliefs in a tone that some people find to have a comedic volume to it. So you don't agree with his comedy, good for you, vote one and move on.

[Eradicator 0]

Exactly, he's trying to be an asshole. He's not an idiot, he's a jerk and they are two different things :P He doesn't ignore the mainstream religious, infact he addresses it head on and he's right, without their complacent support these extremists would not exist.

[Mr.48 0]

He's a Comedian, would it be amusing if he was very serious about it? Of course not, he's presenting his beliefs in a tone that some people find to have a comedic volume to it. So you don't agree with his comedy, good for you, vote one and move on.

 

What bothers me is how people lap this kind of shit up, because they kind of agree with parts of it:

 

That was incredibly epic and spot on, I do say, spot on

 

Exactly, he's trying to be an asshole. He's not an idiot, he's a jerk and they are two different things

Either way hes not worth listening to.

 

without their complacent support these extremists would not exist

 

Yes they would, just by a different name, and hes either an idiot for not realizing it or an asshole for spouting bullshit he doesnt believe in.

Edited January 27, 2008 by Mr.48

[Opals25 0]

Some people find asshole humor funny, quite frankly I thought he was pretty hilarious, and that at the same time he conveyed some very real criticisms on modern day religious tolerance. We get it though, you don't find it funny. Stop posting about it then, and again, vote one and move on.

 

Did you even listen to it at all? He agreed that the idiots fundamentalists would exist, he said they would be institutionalized like they should be if they didn't have the massive support base from the moderates not willing to do anything about it.

 

Serious, I'm calling a fake post, there's no way you actually listened to this.

Edited January 27, 2008 by Opals25

[Feuersturm 0]

Just look at all the atrocities committed by secularists and atheists in this century alone.

 

There's a huge difference here, people don't kill people in the name of Atheism, people don't blow up buses for it, the fact they are is a coincidence as much as the fact Hitler and Stalin both had mustaches. It's the fact that people kill others in the name of a religion that's the problem, people that could very well have been normal members of society had they not been raised and indoctrinated with the idea that anybody that doesn't believe in you should die.

 

Thats exactly my point, these kinds of people kill because they're murderers, not because they believe in god, or are atheists or what have you. And you can teach people to kill in the name of political ideology just as easily as in the name of religion, not to mention the people that kill out of simple greed and lust for power.

No, you're missing what I said. They become murders because of their religion. They're taught from the day they're born (In fundamentalist Muslim cultures for my example) that it is a good thing to die for your religion, and to kill the Jews. If they weren't brought up with this, they wouldn't be murderers, if they were brought up and taught love and compassion and to live and let live then they wouldn't be murderers. Psychotics that orchestrate the death of 1, or 1 million people will always exist, what I'm saying is that blind religious indoctrination makes so many more.

 

Or, they are murderers, and find relgion as a way of justifying their actions?

[Opals25 0]

Do you honestly believe that? Do you honestly believe that people who bomb abortion clinics, or Jewish buses are just doing it for the kick of it and hide behind religion, and not because they strongly believe that the word of god tells them to? Jesus Christ man, they even go so far as to take their own lives to accomplish it. Lots of people die to do this, they cease their mortal lives, to kill people. They do it under the promise of eternal life, of 72 virgins (or grapes if you'd like to translate it that way), because anyone who expected to only have one life to live isn't going to throw it away so easily.

 

Or would you rather get on to the idea that some people just have predispositions to be murderers? That they're just born that way, and not that social injustices, indoctrination, or other factos make them do it.

 

most Christians do care about their fellow man

You're lucky to be living in a place where this is the norm. I've lived over half my life now in the bible belt of the United States, where the extreme is the norm, and you can truly see that radical fundamentalists do not care about their fellow man if they're not Christian. there are people here who have no respect for those who do not believe them, and honestly believe that gays should be put to death, that a woman who is raped had it coming and all of that extreme shit you can hardly believe is real. Down here, this is common, and these extremes are standing up, they're voting, and they're attempting to make their bigotry law. Just last year, in the state of Tennessee, they passes a state constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. It didn't actually do anything! Gay marriage is already banned by law, they just decided to place into the states constitution, for no more reason then to attempt to reaffirm their bigoted beliefs. As long as the moderate Christians continue to let the extremists grow and take control like this, then the spread of hatred will only grow.

Edited January 27, 2008 by Opals25

[Godwin 0]

This, is the danger of labelling yourself something, anything. Bad shit happens, and everyone who might share that label come to share the characteristic. Left? Right? Communist? Atheist? Christian? Punk? Emo? I guess it's also important to then not generalise and just categorise a bunch of people by an attached label. So you say you're Christian? Let your actions speak for you. People are too caught up with belonging to their fucking posses judging other posses. I rarely even call myself Christian anymore realising that my actions do not always reflect or represent the teachings of Christ. That and people are so hard on for name calling and stereotyping. I agree with you Opals, more should be done to bring light to bad teaching and to root it out, but it will take time, given the core discrepancies people have in even interpreting scripture. I only hope that there are people where you are that stand up to fundamentalism, and not with hate, because that only makes things worse.

 

And please don't turn this into a ATHEISTS PWN U RELIGIOS NUTS HAHA thread. I don't truly believe that will get us anywhere.

[IconOfEvi 0]

You are (more or less) Christian? Thats a new one on me.

 

And yes, please don't turns this into ath pwn relig or vice versa.

[Korona 0]

Religion and religious sentiment is at the core of the human experience. Yes, faith leads people to apparently crazy acts - Abraham himself went up the mountain and tried to kill his son because of his faith. I don't think religious zealots like suicide bombers are actually acting from religious faith (we can start another thread and discuss it if you really want), but I will concede anyway that faith can lead people to do very bizzaire things.

However we may as well say we should try and suppress people from feeling angry because it can lead to them going and hitting people. Clearly its a blunt approach to the issue. At the end of the day its a phenomenally powerful force but one that can enrich our lives, for better or worse.

[Goose 0]

He's a well known satirical comedian in the UK, I seriously doubt he believes in what he says, he's just summing up a sort of half serious general consensus in a funny way. But he makes a good point about how he will get letters from someone from each of the religions that they are being singled out and picked on.

[Leonardofury 0]

Maybe I'm just bias here but I personally found the 'For those who follow Islam, calm down!' bit, probably the most funny. I quite like Marcus Brigstocke, I don't agree with quite a few of his views, but I still thing he's a funny comedian, and he finds a damn funny way to put his arguements forward.

[dave1001 0]

Maybe I'm just bias here but I personally found the 'For those who follow Islam, calm down!' bit, probably the most funny. I quite like Marcus Brigstocke, I don't agree with quite a few of his views, but I still thing he's a funny comedian, and he finds a damn funny way to put his arguements forward.

This is pretty much how I felt about the video. The only thing I disagree with is the idea that extremists cannot exist without the support of more moderate believers. For example, do any other Christian organizations actually support the Westboro Bapist Church? (the 'god hates fags' church) Certainly, there is no great outcry from the majority of Christians against them, but silence is not the same as support, and in such a case the moderate group cannot really counter the extremist message. Extremist groups take existing beliefs and distort them into something different by reinterpreting or changing the emphasis. So a Christian cannot speak against anything Fred Phelps quotes from the Bible without seeming to discredit the verse. While the moderates can speak against the methods of an extremist group, they cannot protest the substance of an extremist message without seeming to discredit their own, moderate interpretation of the same material.

[Logan Hartke 0]

There's much that I disagree with in this and there are a great many assumptions in this thread that I'd love to comment on, but this is our busy season at work, I'm currently sick as a dog, and I hate getting embroiled in political and religious debates to begin with. I'd just like to ask that you try to view some of these people through their eyes. Compare our current situation with that a thousand years ago and ask yourself what's changed. Last but not least, before assuming what makes someone tick or what opinion of someone they might have, ask them.

 

Logan Hartke