The Disaster That Is Obama

[hawk10314 0]

Since turning 18 now I will be 20 by the 2008 election. I always took pride in My nation, and what made it what it is. I felt it was my responsibility as a voter not to just vote for someone because of party lines, race or gender. But who really understands how this nation works economically and in the very ideals that makes America a one of a kind country. over the years I did my homework, I dug down looked at what worked, what hasn't worked and other forms of government to compare it to.

 

Right now I'm just going to cover Obama, And then in a different reply Ill post my thoughts for McCain, I'm not a fan of him either, but I think hes the lesser of two evils... sadly.

 

Here we go....

 

Obama is the worst thing that could happen to America. He is so socialist and on the border of turning this nation into a communist nation its sickening. To say the least. Lets go down the topics.

 

Health care.

 

Universal health care is socialist and its going to run into the exact same problems as social security which as we all know is another great social program run by the government. If you have free affordable health care the government is going to have to place regulators inspectors and issue inspections throughout health insurances, hospitals and any other medical institute. High quality? yeah forget that. the law of averages will always play out and you will have mediocre health care at best. Also, who's going to pay for all these new government programs? you think that people work for free? no they need to get paid thus increasing your cost of healthcare. Also the people who can afford healthcare wont be able to because they will have to be paying for the healthcare thats being given out for free to those who cant afford it at all. I have a friend who is a physical therapist for the elderly and he tells me about his visits to these homes where these older people are being fed by government run health care. meals on wheels or something like that. they have no food in the house can barely afford anything and eat old leftovers weeks old. Its sad. YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO HELP YOU? you out of your mind. If you want quality healthcare only you can yourself can make sure you get it. Not the government. My sister is a district manager for CVS pharmacy and universal health care would be a nightmare for everyone. The government doesn't care about your health it cares about your money and it needs YOUR money to run.

 

The Environment.

 

A ton of the problems are from the environmentalist who are doing nothing more then causing the high prices for gas food and other goods. I got news for you guys, WE NEED OIL. Prices are not high because of oil pricing gouging and it is not high from the war in Iraq. The war in Iraq and the middle east have very little to no effect on our gas prices. Your prices are due to countries like China and India both emerging industrial powers demanding more oil from the available supplies. If you think the USA gets its oil from the middle east your wrong. Top sources we get it from are Mexico Canada Venezuela and our own states like Texas and Alaska.

That whole drilling off the coast is harmful to the environment thing? Yeah that's a bunch of BS. It's actually more harmful to the environment importing oil from foreign countries and across the seas. Your delivery systems via foreign oil are more susceptible to natural and accidental oil spills and leaks then if they were drilled and shipped locally from your own domestic wells. Not only cant we access the huge amounts of oil right at home but the USA has barely built any new refineries since the 70s. Its costing us huge amounts of money to maintain and run these antiquated systems. Your gas is also high because of the decreasing value of the dollar we need more to equal the same dollar of yesteryear. Not to mention that soon if our great guy Al Gore gets his way with his carbon credit system (which he is the founder of, more of your tax dollars for him) it will just be ANOTHER way to TAX the American people. And he wants to run 100% of our power off of wind and solar in the next 10 years? meanwhile its taking Dallas Texas just that long to partially convert to solar and wind.

I hope he knows that both wind and solar are in the same part of the country, the midwest. How are you going to power NYC? have a huge wire going across the country? This is a joke right? your talking about a huge national security vulnerability.

My favorite one of all is the running cars off of corn! If we really wanted to run our cars of of corn we would need to turn the entire country into a corn field and thats just for the gas. Corn is used in everything from well corn to pretty much everything you eat.

The technology we need to have cleaner energy is there but the implementation of it is a gradual process its not going to happen overnight, and to tax the oil companies aka the oil companies for not having it done by tomorrow is just slowing it down and unreasonable. We cant get rid of one resource(oil) and then create the others. Its a slow transition. And why even rush it? Its not us thats causing Al gores global delusion its China who in about 20 years will be pumping more CO2 into the atmosphere then any other nation. They want to get rich first before they care about the environment and thats what they are going to do. Obama wants to invest 150 billion into renewal resources, did he tell you where hes going to get that money from? Thats right, your pocket. He is opposed to domestic oil which would drive the prices of oil down significantly.

 

Taxes

 

Obama makes it sound like the corporations are evil they are bad for America and that Raising taxes never works it fails every time. its taking money from the people that invest it back into the economy, in return slowing it down. Obama wants to have a windfall profit tax. this means companies that make what they see as excessive profits will be taxed a greater extent. How is this going to solve anything? Corporations don't pay taxes, you do. Their taxes go up and your prices for your products go up as well. its a trickle down system. we need to punish them for their success and make us pay their tax bills? I got another surprise, these corporations are AMERICANS!!! THAT'S right! they aren't run by demons from another planet they are run by Americans! These corporations were all started from small business and our country was founded on the freedoms of free trade and free enterprise. You want the government to tax you on YOUR success when you try to be an entrepreneur? You wont even get your feet off the ground. Where do you think that the money goes from the profits from these corporations and companies? You think that they just put your money in a safe and count it? No, its distributed to shareholders of the company, retirees and then invested back into the company. By taxing them on this would backfire. Companies will then go down the list seeing who they can cut from their payroll, it used to be that you had a good job and that you would joke around saying "They cant afford to lose me" now its the other way around soon. Companies cant afford to have you, literally, you get laid off and your out collecting unemployment. (more of your tax dollars). Another tax that Obama wants to tax corporations on is for outsourcing jobs to other countries. This is going to have the exact opposite effect. Companies are outsourcing because of one thing. Its cheaper to do it there then it is here. So by taxing them you are making it more expensive for them to do business they raise their prices, and they lay off some more people. now you have even less jobs here. And even if you do relocate productions here this is what happens below.

 

 

 

[hawk10314 0]

Minimum wage and Unions.

 

Minimum wage is not designed for people to live off of and when you hear politicians say that X amount of Americans are living off of minimum wage, this isn't the case. you average lets say..... 250 a week on minimum wage. You cant live off of that. And people don't, they are supplemented with a welfare check and a food stamp to go with it so now they are living off about 500 a week. you CAN do that and people do. Here lis the problem. This is why social programs never work. There is no motivation or determination to progress yourself as an individual. Once you start making a X amount a week through paid work. you lose you welfare and food stamp qualifications. Why should these people want to go out and get better jobs and make less money because they aren't getting their weekly government checks. They don't and they continue to just suck from tax dollars while keeping a low profile job. I know this is true because I see this happen at my work. I work at CVS which is a drug store for those who don't know. This one lady comes in she’s kinda crazy and whacked out to say the least a real character if you ask me nothing mentally wrong just unique. She asked how much she would make working at our store and she told me exactly this "It has to be under a certain amount or I'll get cut from my welfare checks" That's right your tax money is going to pay for those cheating the system and don't want to go the extra distance to better themselves.

 

Obama wants to raise it! making it even harder for small business trying to get started because now they need to pay their employees more for doing simple work. Minimum wage is a steppingstone to higher positions its not meant to be a mid life source of income and it shouldn't be.

 

Unions

 

Unions are a disaster, they are based off the minimum wage so if the minimum wage goes up so does their pay. They are paid by the hour not by the job. Meaning they will run the clock on projects such as utility work, construction etc. A very good example of what a union can do is GM and Ford. The workers at the plants are union based and they want more and more pay for doing simple jobs, tied with the high gas prices and loss of car sales makes for a disaster, they can’t afford like I said to keep these workers and they are laid off by the thousands. But on the other end of the scale are the Asian car companies who pay their workers based on the job at hand, if you push a button all day you makes $7 an hour not $20 and in worker numbers in the thousands it all adds up when your paying them huge pay rates. With low pay rates and good gas mileage cars, they are booming right now.

 

 

 

Poverty

 

Obama is the source of the Global Poverty Act which would increase our GDP tax to the UN to $65 billion a year. Who’s going to pay for that? You. There is an old saying I live by and that is “Give a man a fish he will eat for a day, teach a man how to fish he will eat for a lifetime”

 

throwing the world fish doesn’t solve anything. A great politician never liked the idea of making people conformable in poverty but instead leading them out of it, Benjamin Franklin was his name. We should be showing nations in poverty how to fish rather then throwing them fish.

 

 

Government in General.

 

When this country was founded it was founded on small government and the greatest thing our founding fathers did for us was keeping it out of our way. Government can’t make your life for you. Only you know what is best for you, not Uncle Sam. The Library is open to everyone go out, read, learn a skill apply that skill into a service and your on your way to living your own American dream. The American dream isn’t handed out its earned. You think President Bush’s rating is low? Ever look at Congress’? its in the SINGLE digits! And this was the same congress that was supposed to be the best, would go down in history as the real game changer when it took the floor. Oh by the way, they made sure they took a nice long vacation before they got started. And all those high oil prices they were supposed to fix? Thats right they went on vacation for a month this august. Obama wants significantly increase the size of the US Government, trying more and more to help everyone while creating more socialized programs. Higher taxes. Increase in federal spending, which we pay for someway or another. It comes down to us. If Government never has done anything good for us, then why? Why do we want more and more of it? You know what’s best for you.

 

[Mehman 0]

I don't feel like replying to both of your posts, so I'm going to say this:

 

What's with the commie scare? You apparently don't know much about communism or socialism so how can you know what he's trying to turn the country into? Do you really think socialism is what you think it is? Poverty, hammers and field work the whole day? Jeez, look at Spain for example, they voted in a socialist party, are they turning into a superpower and plotting to take over the world by puppet states and a huge army? No, the US is much more inclined to do that. So when it comes to socalism, stuff it.

 

Universal health care is a good thing. Your myth of bad quality isn't true, look at most of Europe, we have better health care than you do, despite your claims that private health care is good for quality. Take a look at where the US ranks compared to the rest of the world.

 

 

 

 

USA oil consumption: 20,800,000 (bbl/day) 2005 est.

USA population: 2008 estimate 305,012,000

 

China oil consumption: 6,930,000 (bbl/day) 2007 est.

China population: 2007 estimate 1,321,851,888

 

 

Now, until these two numbers start making sense you have nowhere to point the finger.

 

 

In order for a man to catch fish he needs at least a hook and some string, or a fishing pole and fish. How the hell is he going to get that in the middle of the desert?

Edited September 1, 2008 by MehMan

[IconOfEvi 0]

1) Where the hell did you come from hawk? You like came from the dead.

 

2) I thought I was gonna agree with most stuff...until...I read...then, I REALIZED.

 

3) And I thus concluded:

 

ATTACK OF THE LIBERTARIANS! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!

 

Sorry hawk, but in the course of talking with libertarians irl and hanging out at a libertarian IRC channel, I have thus to conclude libertarianism is nearly as stupid and horrendous as communism. And thats saying something, coming from me.

 

It goes like this.

 

The Father - Adam Smith

The Son - Milton Friedman

The Holy Spirit - Ayn Rand

The Old Testament - Wealth Of Nations

The New Testament - Books Of Friedman, including Free to Choose, etc.

Judas - Pat Buchanan

The Church - The Cato Institute

The Prayer - Laissez-Faire

Edited September 1, 2008 by IconOfEvi

[Mehman 0]

you're a moron icon. You don't know what communism is do you?

[IconOfEvi 0]

If you're here to banter to me about how communism hasn't ever been properly implemented, spare me.

 

And, yes, I do. Even perfect communism is a nightmare, because in essence, it so totally transcends just an economic policy, making a mental policy, and even a spiritual policy. It destroys the very concept of the individual. Marx and Engels succinctly state all of this. They are trying to evolve a different kind of race of man, one where the state and obedience to it is central to human existence, where it IS part of man instead of an outgrowth of man. Most worrying perhaps to me however is how it so dominates the arena of the spirit, trying to replace it with worship of the state, of the physical, etc. They wish to crack the totality of mind, brain, and soul, to destroy it, to implement their own method of thinking, of being. In this sense, it is similar to black magic.

Edited September 1, 2008 by IconOfEvi

[Mehman 0]

I see that you don't have a clue. Communism is based on a stateless, classless society. Your argument thus falls flat on the ground.

 

You fail.

Edited September 1, 2008 by MehMan

[killakanz 0]

Health care.

 

Universal health care is socialist and its going to run into the exact same problems as social security which as we all know is another great social program run by the government. If you have free affordable health care the government is going to have to place regulators inspectors and issue inspections throughout health insurances, hospitals and any other medical institute. High quality? yeah forget that. the law of averages will always play out and you will have mediocre health care at best. Also, who's going to pay for all these new government programs? you think that people work for free? no they need to get paid thus increasing your cost of healthcare. Also the people who can afford healthcare wont be able to because they will have to be paying for the healthcare thats being given out for free to those who cant afford it at all. I have a friend who is a physical therapist for the elderly and he tells me about his visits to these homes where these older people are being fed by government run health care. meals on wheels or something like that. they have no food in the house can barely afford anything and eat old leftovers weeks old. Its sad. YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO HELP YOU? you out of your mind. If you want quality healthcare only you can yourself can make sure you get it. Not the government. My sister is a district manager for CVS pharmacy and universal health care would be a nightmare for everyone. The government doesn't care about your health it cares about your money and it needs YOUR money to run.

 

I read this far before deciding it's too much to read for someone who doesn't care about the US elections.

 

How much homework have you done again? This smells a lot like a clone of the NHS to me, and we're doing alright. And if youre not happy with NHS and have the money, there's always BUPA.

[Count von Phoib 0]

*Puts on to do list: make a great American elections topic, close other topics*

[Windows V 0]

I see that you don't have a clue. Communism is based on a stateless, classless society. Your argument thus falls flat on the ground.

 

Do you still get to own things?

[hawk10314 0]

I read this far before deciding it's too much to read for someone who doesn't care about the US elections.

 

How much homework have you done again? This smells a lot like a clone of the NHS to me, and we're doing alright. And if youre not happy with NHS and have the money, there's always BUPA.

 

Well where I come from I rather be doing better then "alright"

If you want the government to provide you with everything then yeah, you might be doing "alright"

 

The NHS doesn't encompass the entire UK. You have NHS Scotland NHS Wales and HSC for Northern Ireland all independently operating. How does Obama's real universial health care for 300+ million people sound anything like the NHS? Divided among 3 separate branches encompassing 60+ million people, and its not even universal.

 

 

Medicare (government run) is paid by you through tax equal to 2.9% (1.45% from the you and 1.45% paid by the employer) of the wages you earn.

this is right now covering 43 million people 65 years or older. Now in 2030ish when the baby boom generation reaches the age to enroll 77 million will be enrolled. That's a huge increase and who's going to pay for it? Not only will the baby boomers be able to get health care but they will obviously need more then health care, and will also be able to receive social security benefits. which is also paid for again by payroll taxes. Those who cant afford health care will be insured, those who could barely afford health care wont be able to and now they cant afford it. creating more of a tax burden for those who can and slowly but surly people slide down in poverty. People living in poverty? This sounds like communism to me.

 

SS should be privatized or gone with all together. People should be opening 401k plans for retirement. Knowing that when I put money away and it will be there when I cant work anymore is a lot better then paying huge amounts of taxes and I might be doing "alright" when I retire. I keep reading Obama's web site on how all this is going to be paid for, all I see is everything will cost less but everyone will have more. Doesn't make sense.

[hawk10314 0]

USA oil consumption: 20,800,000 (bbl/day) 2005 est.

USA population: 2008 estimate 305,012,000

 

China oil consumption: 6,930,000 (bbl/day) 2007 est.

China population: 2007 estimate 1,321,851,888

 

 

Now, until these two numbers start making sense you have nowhere to point the finger.

 

 

In order for a man to catch fish he needs at least a hook and some string, or a fishing pole and fish. How the hell is he going to get that in the middle of the desert?

 

Those billion plus people are starting to buy cars now, they are becoming industrialized and the reason China's economy is growing so well is due to them implementing a capitalist economic structure, but still having a communist government. I said in 20 years, not right now and to show you that they are needing more oil China just made a deal with Iraq to gain access to their oil fields.

[Rattuskid 0]

I think I'd honestly prefer to read about, how, as a darkie, Obama will ruin the America for all us non-darkies via reparations and jive-talk than all this kind of bullshit about how he's Ayatollah Stalin McHitler. Sad really.

 

How much homework have you done again? This smells a lot like a clone of the NHS to me, and we're doing alright. And if youre not happy with NHS and have the money, there's always BUPA.

 

The basically what's proposed here, yes. The issue that's seemingly been more debated in the past weeks is whether healthcare insurance should be mandatory. Much like car insurance currently is here. McCain favors this, as part of the Republican mantra of 'individual responsibility', and so do a lot of liberals, since they see it as a stepping stone to nationalized healthcare. Obama doesn't want to put the cart before the horse though, and has been iffy on mandating health care before provisions for nationalized health care are in place, and I agree with that.

 

Not to mention, there is the question of punishment for the mandate. If I can't afford HCI, then what would you do, hit me with fines until I could? That's just retarded.

 

Obama wants to raise it! making it even harder for small business trying to get started because now they need to pay their employees more for doing simple work. Minimum wage is a steppingstone to higher positions its not meant to be a mid life source of income and it shouldn't be.

 

Raising the minimum wage has never been an issue over trying to get it to support a middle class lifestyle, but rather just keeping it in pace with inflation. The minimum, when adjusted for the cost of living, is actually well below the purchasing power of say, the minimum of the mid 1960s.

 

I never understood the loathing people have for a system that helps people just because a few misuse it. As though there is no room for reform, only refusing of it. Employers are sneaky bastards, and without a minimum, WalMart would cheat the rank and file of it's stores out of double what they currently do.

 

Unions are a disaster, they are based off the minimum wage so if the minimum wage goes up so does their pay. They are paid by the hour not by the job. Meaning they will run the clock on projects such as utility work, construction etc.

 

Unions predate the Minimum Wage Law, and are not based on it. They undergo collective bargaining agreements with the employers, and undergo increases in wage for the same reason why the job you do doesn't pay the same now that it did in 1952. Pay all comes down to that, in fact, the clock doesn't even start for IMA, the union for commercial pilots, until the plane has moved 15 feet. The UAW doesn't get much more in the check than European or Japanese counterparts. Hence why, due to the weak dollar, Volkswagen is opening a plant in Tennessee and Alfa Romeo is even considering a plant here. The higher wages are less than the cost to ship the product.

 

Besides, unions extend to a lot more than construction and the UAW. Every teacher in a public high school you ever dealt with is likely unionized, as are the police who patrol your neighborhood.

 

A great politician never liked the idea of making people conformable in poverty but instead leading them out of it, Benjamin Franklin was his name.

 

Ben never held elected office, and last time I checked, his book was called 'Poor Richard's Alamanac', not 'Suckling Of The Teat Of The Government Richard's Alamanac'.

Edited September 1, 2008 by Rattuskid

[Mehman 0]

I see that you don't have a clue. Communism is based on a stateless, classless society. Your argument thus falls flat on the ground.

 

Do you still get to own things?

 

Yes. Where does it state that you can't have a house? You can't have a TV? You can still have private property. We already share as it is. We share roads, buses, etc etc.

[killakanz 0]

I read this far before deciding it's too much to read for someone who doesn't care about the US elections.

 

How much homework have you done again? This smells a lot like a clone of the NHS to me, and we're doing alright. And if youre not happy with NHS and have the money, there's always BUPA.

 

Well where I come from I rather be doing better then "alright"

If you want the government to provide you with everything then yeah, you might be doing "alright"

 

The NHS doesn't encompass the entire UK. You have NHS Scotland NHS Wales and HSC for Northern Ireland all independently operating.

 

You're not familiar with British understatement are you?

 

Also, yea the NHS branches, but they're not independent.

[IconOfEvi 0]

Obviously he's not :lol:

 

Yes. Where does it state that you can't have a house? You can't have a TV? You can still have private property. We already share as it is. We share roads, buses, etc etc.

*facepalm

 

Time to dig up a copy of the Communist Manifesto, and other assorted works <_<

 

Ben never held elected office, and last time I checked, his book was called 'Poor Richard's Alamanac', not 'Suckling Of The Teat Of The Government Richard's Alamanac'.

I think I might go out on a limb and say I wanna marry you Rattus, just cause your wit is verily excellent :P. Well maybe just the kids...

 

 

Edited September 1, 2008 by IconOfEvi

[Count von Phoib 0]

Continue here.