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Count von Phoib

American Presidential Elections

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You don't think they wanted to go into Iraq before that? What about the Project For A New American Century that wrote an open letter to Clinton in 1998 saying he should invade Iraq and remove Saddam? C'mon man Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, we all know it was used to bullshit the US (and UK) into accepting the attack on Iraq and the removal of Saddam. The Neocons have wanted him gone for ages.

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You're basically saying what I've told you before, and that is Iraq was wanted gone before Bush II came round. The plan for it was formulating in the end days of the Clinton administration. Whether the neocons wanted him gone has no influence on the fact that Clinton administration had plans to attack Iraq, which in themselves we're a continuation of a contingency plan from Bush I and the Gulf War. Nothing new here. It just serves to highlight the fact neoconservatives and liberals are more closely aligned with each other than the former with their nemesis namesake, paleoconservatives and such.

 

As for the early Bush, I wasn't referring to Iraq specifically. Its more like I was thinking the East Europe, etc area. Namely, letting countries chart their own destiny.

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Someone has a crazy pastor!

 

Hint: Someone not black.

 

I like the bit here the best...

 

A guest speaker at Palin's church on a day she was stoically in attendance...

 

Judgment is very real and we see it played out on the pages of the newspapers and on the television. It’s very real. When [brickner's son] was in Jerusalem he was there to witness some of that judgment, some of that conflict, when a Palestinian from East Jerusalem took a bulldozer and went plowing through a score of cars, killing numbers of people. Judgment — you can’t miss it.

 

It's ironic the only people who get a bigger kick out of terrorism against Jews than the terrorists themselves are the political faction that's supposed to be the most heavily aligned with Israel in this nation...

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Yawn, Huffy Po.

 

Not that you haven't got a point about she's got some crazy people somewhere around her, but seriously...you read HuffyPo? Come now...

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Palin has been such a liability. I love how they have basically wrapped her in cotton wool and put her back in the box since the Charlie Rose interview.

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Many only support Israel because the believe it's part of Revelations and the prophecy of the end of the world. I guess they are tired of living in one where everything isn't spelled out in black and white, and prefer a purpose even if it's one that they think will end in the death of everything.

 

Fun.

 

In this effort though, they only support it through the role they think it will play as the birthplace of the anti-Christ or something. Which is a bit like opposing urban renewal in one part of town because you think the greatest gangsta ever will come from there and finally put the city out of it's misery by generating mass murder until everyone flees...

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Many only support Israel because the believe it's part of Revelations and the prophecy of the end of the world.

 

Okay, I know a lot of Americans are crazy when it comes to religion, but even I find this hard to believe.... are you getting this from a poll or article or something, or just from personal experience?

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While he exaggerates the 'Many' part (from my experience anyways), but yes, its true. Its not an exact A = B relationship, but you can assume a lot of times that yes, thats the belief among evangelical strains. Again, not all, but quite often.

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Many only support Israel because the believe it's part of Revelations and the prophecy of the end of the world.

Okay, I know a lot of Americans are crazy when it comes to religion, but even I find this hard to believe.... are you getting this from a poll or article or something, or just from personal experience?

There are indeed some crazies out there. But that's not really news, is it? I've taken a few jobs that put me in contact with greater concentrations of people that belief in the literal apocolypse than in society as a whole, and the people who actually take their belief to the point of political application are a very small minority within an already small group.

 

I've wanted to point this out for a while, but another thing to remember when talking about religion in America is that statistics exagerate the number of Christians here, because many people when asked will describe themselves as Christian because that's assumed to be the 'default' faith for people to hold, whether that has any bearing upon how they live or not. This is shown to be the case every time Christmas and Easter come around, because the number of people going to church suddenly quadruples (or more) on those holidays.

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As a % of GDP, we spend more than any other country except the US on defence

I've heard that before aswell, I'd like to know where it's all going though, because the forces are in a state at the moment, probably on Prince William's golden Chinook.

 

(yeah I'm late posting this and it's off topic, sue me :P)

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Wars are expensive.

 

Regarding Israel I think most people support them because of the nature of the conflict. Hamas and Hezbollah vs the IDF makes it seem like the Palestinians are a load of terrorists and the IDF is defending Israel. The reporting of the invasion of Lebanon was pretty sticky for that reason. I think a lot of people got the impression that Israel was basically justified. The pundits on the news services all seemed to give that impression. The reality on the ground is that Israel is occupying huge parts of Palestine. The daily life in the Gaza strip, it's status as a massive Gulag, the wall building and the annexation of bits of Palestine to build settlements. All this is rarely reported or never reported.

I think if people got a balanced picture of the middle east a lot less of them would support Israel.

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I think my favorite Israel WTF moment is still the nutter who in 1994 opened fire on a mosque with a Galliel rifle, and when the IDF first responders got there, faced with a lone Israeli with an Israeli weapon and a mass of panicked trampling Muslims... took positions beside him and started shooting.

 

I may have been overzealous in my observations, but I don't see how someone can steadfastly believe that the end of the world is nigh, hinged on Israel and not let that taint their political positions towards the region.

Edited by Rattuskid

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I've heard that before aswell, I'd like to know where it's all going though, because the forces are in a state at the moment, probably on Prince William's golden Chinook.

 

(yeah I'm late posting this and it's off topic, sue me )

 

Why can't you British people love the royal family as much as all of us non-British people do?

 

Well, you know, besides the fact that you actually have to pay for them and all...

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Mocking authority is an essential part of the British world view. Actually if I ran the country that is what the citizen exam would consist in. One good joke about leaders of the country you came from and one good joke about our leaders.

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I guess my adfilters blocked out all the bumf, all I got was a video of that pop star yakking about her new album.

 

Given that turnout for elections in the US is so poor I guess someone needs to do something.

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Your adfilters have more sense than you know :).

 

Also, I'm so tired of arguing with everyone, irl and out, so that I'll just say this:

 

You think Obama is brilliant? You think he's the beginning, the end of an era, a manifestation of something beautiful?

 

You will see.

 

And you will be sorry.

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