Blowout Pc

[BoB 0]

Hi guys, been a while since I logged in to reply to anything here, but this is my tech-friendly source of knowledge!

 

Long story short, paycheque => godlike PC to replace my ageing (4yrs old) one. I'm only going to use my new PC for gaming - all the downloads and most of the interweb surfing will be on the old PC - I want this bad boy to run games like Empire Total War brilliantly.

 

My main question is really this - is it worth an extra £250 for a solid-state HDD? I figure that it should surely be waaaay faster? Also, what's the limiting factor on these two options (ie. is the extra RAM a waste given X etc?)

 

PC1 - £1,493 delivered

Processor (CPU)

Intel® Core™2 Quad Q9650 (4 X 3.00GHz) 1333MHz FSB/12MB Cache

 

Memory (RAM)

8GB CORSAIR DOMINATOR 1066MHz - LIFETIME WARRANTY (4x2GB)

 

Motherboard

ASUS® P5Q DELUXE: DUAL DDR2, S-ATA II,2 x VGA, 2 x PCI, 2 PCI-E x1

 

Operating System

Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium 64-bit Edition + SP1, CD (£59)

 

1st CD/DVD Drive

20x Dual Layer LightScribe DVD Writer ±R/±RW/RAM

 

2nd CD/DVD Drive

16x DVD-ROM & 52x CD-ROM Drive

 

Graphics Card

2048MB RADEON HD 4870X2 PCI Express (PRE-ORDER ONLY)

 

Power Supply & Case Cooling

700W Quiet Quad Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan (£79)

 

Processor Cooling

ASUS SILENT KNIGHT II PURE COPPER ULTRA COOLER (£36)

 

And for £10, I'm getting Kapersky - I assume that out of Kapersky and Norton its less memory & CPU intensive?

 

 

 

ORRRRRR, PC2 £1746- the same except:

Memory - 1st Hard Disk

128GB SATA II SOLID STATE DISK (MLC) (120MB/sR | 80MB/sW)

Basically, unless the solid-state is godlike better i'll got for the regular HDD.

[IconOfEvi 0]

My opinion, keep the old PC for another 2 years, or another 4 if you're gutsy. Don't be so fast to replace the wonderful PC.

 

It CAN'T be as bad as my old one was. Get some interim upgrades on old dude if must.

Edited October 23, 2008 by IconOfEvi

[Korona 0]

The BBC did a test for SSDs. If you search the click pages you may find it. Basically the conclusion is that solid state drives aren't really much faster. Bootup of the same laptop was around 30 seconds for all the drives, the higher RPM one did it maybe a second faster than the standard one and the SSD shaved off maybe another second or two. Basically, it's not going to be noticeable. So why the hoo ha? Well they are lower on power usage and much much more robust. Both very important factors for a laptop, but almost useless in a desktop. Save your money.

Actually regarding HDDs I would recommend getting 4 generic disks and putting them into a RAID array. It is way better for reliability and if you use the right type you boost access speeds as well. It should also be much cheaper than getting an equivalent amount of storage using an SSD.

 

Again with the RAM, the high performance stuff isn't really worth it. You may as well go generic. I would also imagine that 8 gygs is overkill. I find that for me, my CPU is the bottleneck unless I want to crank the graphics way up, in which case its the GPU. Pound for pound you are better off saving that cash and putting it towards a graphics card update in maybe 2 years time.

[EvilViking 0]

Overall, that looks like a great setup. As mentioned above, the SSDs aren't worth the money for desktops. Get some good drives for a RAID 0 array for performance (OS & games) and a RAID 1 for redundant data storage and backup.

 

One note about the RAM, I have the exact same in my new rig ( Click for lots of pics & info ), and you should not expect to run all 8GB at 1066mhz, or even 800mhz unless you loosen/increase the timings. There is a limitation on what your motherboard can handle, and even with 2.1v (required for these sticks) over the default 1.8v for your RAM slots, you will get lock-ups using 8GB at high speeds. Right now I'm running mine at loose/high timings (which sucks) at 900mhz, but I plan on lowering the MHZ in favor of tighter timings.

 

Oh, and I would also go ahead and get at least an 850 - 1000 watt PSU with a high efficiency - those 4970 X2s are beastly!

[Count von Phoib 0]

How expensive are RAID controllers these days?

[killakanz 0]

About the graphics card, nVidia's GTX 260 out-performs the Radeon HD4870, despite being only 896MB instead of 1GB, and it's not even nVidia's top-liner (the 280 currently is, that's the 1GB monster). The 260 is also marginally cheaper than the HD4870. You can even run upto 3 of them SLI...

It's a little bulky (but so is the 4870) unless you splash out another 50 quid for the water cooled version (excuse the pun).

 

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/evga_gtx260/6.htm

 

Also for the hard drive, I recommend Samsung Spinpoint F1. It's quick, it's 500GB and you can pick one up for £51. That's £1 per 10GB!

[Mehman 0]

Here's the deal: the GTX260 preforms marginally better than a HD4870 where it matters, the X2 is just a bufffed up HD4870. The GTX260 is twice the price of the HD4870 and it doesn't outpreform it enough to justify the double cost. If you can, get the HD4870 GS from gainward, it has a double bios, neat feature, the OCed one is about 5% better in preformance, if you really care. So far I've been able to run every game maxed out with max FPS.

 

Why two DVD drives? Really useless if you ask me.

 

i'd get a 1TB SATAII drive or 750GB SATAII drive. Dirt cheap compared to the old days.

[killakanz 0]

You say the GTX260 is twice the price? Wtf?

 

GTX260, £207.96 inc VAT:

http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProd...+DL+DVI%2f+HDTV

 

HD4870, £219.14 inc VAT:

http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProd...V%2c+HDCP+Ready

 

You sure you didn't get mixed up with the GTX280?

 

The 260 out-performs the 4870 box-standard where it matters. Overclock it and it does even more so. The HD4870 only comes out better at massive resolutions, so unless you use your home-cinema screen for gaming, it's not worth it.

[BoB 0]

Well, I've decided to be a bit less insane and get a Very Good PC rather than top-of-the-line, so that I can replace it in 3 years rather than getting a slightly better one but paying 40% more.

 

The base I'm working off now is this:

 

http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/index.php?pa...;spec=gaming600

Processor (CPU)

AMD PHENOM™ X4 9950 (2.6GHz) 4 x 512K L2 Cache (Socket AM2+)

Memory (RAM)

4GB CORSAIR XMS2 800MHz - LIFETIME WARRANTY! (2x2GB)

Motherboard

ASUS® M3N72-D: DUAL DDR2, S-ATA II, 2 x PCI-Ex, 2 x PCI

Graphics Card

512MB GEFORCE 9800GT PCI Express + DVI + TV-OUT

 

That's £637, but with the extras I want £805. (TV card, cooling, wireless card, Kapersky, speakers and keyboard/mouse).

 

I'm more after something that can power through Football Manager, Empire Total War etc rather than FPSes, though I will get at least one. One question i've got - for games, say old ones like Hearts of Iron 2... will the 64bit Vista route the CPU load through the 4 cores to help it, or does the game have to be coded to use multiple processors?

 

So here's how I the options for souping it up; 1) making it 8gb of RAM adds £40.

2) Making the Mobo ASUS® M3N-HT DELUXE: DUAL DDR2, S-ATA II, 3 x PCI-Ex, 2 x PCI adds £26.

3) Making the Graphics card CTX260 = +£140. Making it 1024MB GEFORCE 9800GT PCI Express = +£31. Making it 512MB GEFORCE 9800GTX+ PCI Express = +£39. Making it 768MB GEFORCE 9600GSO PCI Express SAVES £22.

4) Dual GPUs? DUAL 768MB GEFORCE 9600GSO PCI Express adds £44. Dual 512MB GEFORCE 9600GT PCI Express = +£48. Dual 512MB GEFORCE 9800GT PCI Express = +£86

 

As it stands I'm falling for the dual- 768MB 9600GSOs, and the RAM. Will the Mobo make any difference other than the extra slot? The Crossfire Mobo was way expensive.

[killakanz 0]

The bios on my mobo has a feature to automatically share the load across the CPUs when running programs that aren't programmed to use multi processors. Have a look on yours.

 

Unless you're into making animated films, 8GB of RAM is too much. You'll never need all of it. Stick to around 2-4 GB, that's all you're going to need for gaming for the next few years. Also I'd suggest a mobo with 4 ram sockets for better performance, using say 4x 1Gb sticks.

 

For GPU it's upto you really. The Geforce 9600 is still a very competant card. I have just one 9600GT 512MB and, combined with a Pentium D dual-core 2.5GHz 2MB cache and 2 GB DDR2 RAM @ 800MHz, it's running ArmA on 1024x768, 2km view distance, AA x2 and all other settings very high without any slowdown, even when scoping through grass (where Mehman says he gets slowdown on his rig).

[Mehman 0]

I'm running ArmA on 1680x1050, 4km view distance and AA on low. Most other settings are on high, 'cept for the post processing where I don't need it and along with some other places where there is no difference between high and very high.

[BoB 0]

Cool, thanks. How important is the cache on the CPU? Looks like a choice between the slower Intel® Core™2 Quad Q8200 (4 X 2.33GHz) 1333MHz FSB/4MB Cache, and the low-cache AMD PHENOM™ X4 9950 (2.6GHz) 4 x 512K L2 Cache (Socket AM2+). Also, how do I find out about the Mobo being able to harness Quad-core?

[killakanz 0]

The cache is basically memory mounted in the CPU for data that is repeatedly required, allowing faster access than if it were stored on the physical memory.

In short, more cache is good, but it wont hurt much to have less!

 

Always check what processors the motherboard you're considering buying will support before you buy anything. When building a new rig, motherboard and processor are the first things to decide on before buying anything else, since they will dictate what type of RAM you can use, how many IDE/SATA/SATAII devices you can have, how many of what GPU(s) etc...

 

Usually motherboards are built to support a brand, Intel or AMD, and then they have varying CPU sockets.

 

For example a 775 socket Intel based mobo should support Core 2 Duo Wolfdale (45nm) and Conroe (65nm) series, as well as the Core 2 Quad Kentsfield (65nm) chips. The Quad Yorkfields (45nm) (your Q8200 is one of these) come in either 775 or 771 socket config. Check which one you have.

To cut short again, if your mobo is a 775 socket (which most new mobos are these days) it should support both Core 2 Duo and Core 2 Quad CPUs.

 

AMD processors use totally different sockets to Intel. The Phenom duo and quad families all use the new AM2+ sockets which you will only find on AMD based motherboards.

 

EDIT-2 = By the way, small note on the motherboards, if you're going for multi-graphic cards check how many 'PCI-E 2.0 x16' sockets the board has. All new GPU cards go in 'PCI-E 2.0 x16' sockets which are vastly different to 'PCI-E x1' (it's 4 times longer than the x1 for a start :P )

[Korona 0]

Woop woop, new Intel chip architecture soon to release.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_3

Don't buy a CPU till it ships (on the 17th) cos there is certain to be a price drop.

[HKH 0]

All looks good, As for Kapersky is good but I now prefer Nod32.

[IconOfEvi 0]

Meh Ill wait til lAMD next arch...well maybe will buy Phenom dunno. Theyre cheep.

[BoB 0]

Thanks for all the advice, it's much appreciated. I thought I'd better announce how I got on:

 

I was near to pulling the trigger on a £950 (excl monitor) PCSpecialist one, but then I read some online reviews and thought again (complaints about problems right out of the box, poor service etc).

 

There must have been some mistake, so I just jumped and ordered this Dell PC I customised after finding it this evening:

 

Base

Intel® Core™ i7 Processor 920 (2.66GHz, 8MB cache, 4.8GT/sec)

Memory

4096MB (4x1024) 1067MHz DDR3 Tri Channel

Keyboard

Dell Multimedia USB Keyboard Black - UK

Monitor

23in S2309W WIDESCREEN UK Black (1920 x 1080)

Video Card

512MB ATI® Radeon® 4850 Graphics card

Hard Drive

500GB Serial ATA (7200RPM) Hard Drive

Floppy Drives and Additional Storage Devices

19-in-1 Media Card Reader

Microsoft Operating System

Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium SP1 64Bit - English

Mouse

Logitech G5 Laser Gaming Mouse - Full Speed USB, adjustable sensitivity, onboard weight tuning

Optical Devices

16X DVD+/- RW Optical Drive (DVD & CD read and write)

Sound Cards

Integrated HDA 7.1 Dolby Digital Audio

Speakers

No Speakers (Speakers are required to hear audio from your system)

Wireless Networking

Internal Enhanced Wireless 802.11n PCIe Card - Europe

Shipping Documents

English Documentation with UK/IRL Power Cord

Gedis Bundle Reference

D12SX03

Standard Warranty

1Yr XPS Premium Warranty Support - Priority Call In and Onsite Support

Enhanced Service Packs

1Yr XPS Premium Warranty Support - Priority Call In and Onsite Support

Order Information

XPS Desktop 430 Order - UK

Gift Promotion

Free Gift Promotion - Creative Vado 2GB Silver Pocket Camera

Dell System Media Kit

Resource DVD - (Diagnostics & Drivers)

Accidental Damage Support

No Accidental Damage Support

Microsoft Application Software

Microsoft® Works 9 - English

Protect your new PC

McAfee® Security Centre - 36 Month Protection - English

Total excl. VAT VAT Rate VAT Total incl. VAT

Sub-total(s): £ 844.58 15.00% £ 126.69 £ 971.27

Delivery Charge: £ 17.02 15.00% £ 2.55 £ 19.57

Total Price: £ 861.60 £ 129.24 £ 990.84

 

 

As I see it the only weak-link is the GPU, and it was the top out of the options I could use when customising it. I need to buy some EHD storage, and some cheap speakers for it too perhaps, but otherwise it's good to go. I had a look at the screen specs - it's full HD, 1920x1080 :)

[killakanz 0]

Oh dear, you've bought one from a website that assembles it for you didn't you?

If you bought the bits and put them together yourself you could have halved that cost.

[Mehman 0]

That depends, the site I bought my PC from assembled it and tested it without any extra charge.

[killakanz 0]

Why why why did you order a PC from Dell (Boy)?

[Mehman 0]

if dell offered a rig this good....

[killakanz 0]

if dell offered a rig this good....

 

Oh but they do, at an insanely high price...

[BoB 0]

Building my own is a no-go. I have zero idea on it, and tbh the time and risk wouldn't be worth it.

 

This Dell rig was only a bit more than the PCSpecialist one, but comes with a £150++ monitor, and a warranty for a year. It also has Intel i7 2.6GHz rather than AMD Phenom quad 2.6, and faster RAM (DDR3 against DDR2).

 

The reason I didn't use a similar site was down to the negligible lower prices (~£100, some were actually more expensive) and the fact that I read numerous reviews online complaining about non-existent customer service, PCs being delievered with parts still loose etc etc.

 

Given that I had to buy my own, this is the best and safest deal I found.

 

 

Interesting fact regarding pricing - on ALL of the sites where you can make selections/modifications.... the final price for an identical rig is influenced by where you start from. I.e. if you start from a top-spec PC and work down it can come out up to £50 more for the same specs as starting at a mid-spec and bolstering it up.

[Mehman 0]

oh wait, you ordered a dell rig not me!

[killakanz 0]

Building my own is a no-go. I have zero idea on it, and tbh the time and risk wouldn't be worth it.

 

This Dell rig was only a bit more than the PCSpecialist one, but comes with a £150++ monitor, and a warranty for a year. It also has Intel i7 2.6GHz rather than AMD Phenom quad 2.6, and faster RAM (DDR3 against DDR2).

 

The reason I didn't use a similar site was down to the negligible lower prices (~£100, some were actually more expensive) and the fact that I read numerous reviews online complaining about non-existent customer service, PCs being delievered with parts still loose etc etc.

 

Given that I had to buy my own, this is the best and safest deal I found.

 

 

Interesting fact regarding pricing - on ALL of the sites where you can make selections/modifications.... the final price for an identical rig is influenced by where you start from. I.e. if you start from a top-spec PC and work down it can come out up to £50 more for the same specs as starting at a mid-spec and bolstering it up.

 

Putting a rig together is actually fairly straight forward, and as long as you use an anti-static wrist strap and be careful on where you hold pieces, risk is very little. I could have talked you thru it on msn, and it would have saved you half that price.