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Afghanistan - Where It's At - Again

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WH Wants Comprehensive Afghan Strategy

 

I have to agree with Obama. A change in strategy is more than needed in Afghanistan. A change in fighting. The current strategy is: kill enough of them for them to give up. And that never works. Using only firepower to overcome the enemy will not work and winning hearts and minds is not going fast enough. The ANA is getting up to speed so the afghans themselves are fighting for themselves more and more. However, it still doesn't change the fundemental problem of having no clear goal besides a bigger body count. You can win the battles, but not the war. The goverment is trusted less and less because it's ineffectual. Many people haven't seen officials and most of the money never reaches the people and poorest parts first. A goverment reform is badly needed in Afghanistan, I think again lead by the west. The focus this time around should be on districts rather than on the whole country or provinces. It's there where people see no effect of any officials, because there is none.

 

All in all, I'd say the ANA with enough training and help would be able to pick up the fight fully in another 5 years or so, if it gets the support Iraq is getting. It does however need an airforce of some sort.

 

There's still hope, there's still a solution, but there needs to be some action.

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Oh Lord, I've been not posting news lately, haven't I :blink:

 

Anyways, yeah been following Michael Yon's excellent coverage on the Af-Pak war for a while now, and unfortunately the prospects indicate unless we do something drastic soon, we are doomed.

 

Obama has got what he wanted - Afghanistan is now his war. Iraq is out of the focus point. He wanted to fight 'the good war', and this is it now, for him. What I fear is that he's already given up the fight up. He has seen the cost in men and machines, toil and years...and he has decided it is not worth it.

Edited by IconOfEvi

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Do you even understand what an exit strategy is? Do you think that after sending 17k troops more that he'll pull them out tommorow?

 

An exit strategy is what every plan should have. Without you have an idea, not a fucking plan.

 

Did you even fucking read the article?

 

Has decided not worth it, yeah, that's why his central policy is to pour more men into it and form an actual plan on how to deal with the problem.

 

Jeez Icon. Are you nothing more than a media headline monkey?

Edited by Mehman

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Oh Lord, I've been not posting news lately, haven't I :blink:

 

Anyways, yeah been following Michael Yon's excellent coverage on the Af-Pak war for a while now, and unfortunately the prospects indicate unless we do something drastic soon, we are doomed.

 

Obama has got what he wanted - Afghanistan is now his war. Iraq is out of the focus point. He wanted to fight 'the good war', and this is it now, for him. What I fear is that he's already given up the fight up. He has seen the cost in men and machines, toil and years...and he has decided it is not worth it.

 

I liked it better when you were banned.

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I don't know that the strategy in Afghanistan is just a case of killing people. It seemed to be more a matter of area denial and security. The Ross Kemp series showed the twin pronged strategy of on the one hand extending out security cordons from key towns and on the other the attacks on Taliban bases and weapon stores.

 

The strategy itself seems all right as far as it goes, the real issue is a lack of men and weapons to do it everywhere it is needed. That is what the increase in troops presumably is going to address. I doubt you will see a radical shift in the way they fight on the ground but the fight will be extended to cover more of the areas where there are issues.

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On the Afghanistan topic...

 

 

Any Canadians here will sure have their blood boil.

 

It had mine boiling.

 

Didn't even know we were in Afghanistan?

Edited by Feuersturm

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It's good that US police have to wear body armour?? Siesta is a Mexican word?? It's like listening in on school kids discussing politics. I love how a siesta means you can actually work for longer since you don't nix yourself by trying to work through the midday sun.

Even more ironically, the US army is facing the same issues with operational fatigue so I am sure will need something similar.

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lol I couldn't finish it, sniggering too much from all the vapid stupidity.

 

And yes, I fucking know what an exit strategy is. And I can tell Obama - he wants out.

 

Yes, there's hope. There's possibility. I want nothing more. But people are gearing up to give up.

 

You guys are not understanding where my pessimism is coming from. Obama has obviously been told or at least grasped the history of Afghanistan since he took office. The place is utterly lawless, or rather, it is wild. The place is essentially unchanged from the Stone Age outside of the urban areas. They live like they did since time immemorial. Only two people have ever been able to successfully conquer and pacify them - Alexander the Great and Maha Ranjit Singh (Islam being a force that assimilated them more or less). That's not to say we are slaves to history, but the fact that he is so forcefully trying to push for an exit plan, a withdrawl plan is a sign to me that the Afghans and the other tribes in Northwest Pakistan will eventually notch up yet another Empire that they defeated. A withdrawl plan would have helped immensely during the Fall of Saigon, but then again, a withdrawl plan wouldn't be needed if the modus operandi was victory. Even supposing Obama wants to stay for years on end (which he doesn't - he's like LBJ, viewing the war as a distraction to his domestic agenda), passing the buck onto his successor, we'll still be in the AfPak war. This is one that requires patience and prolonged sacrifice - attributes rare in modern American history. If anything, we will be in for at least fifty years, if not a hundred. This is more than just a war, this is virtual social revolution. What we are attempting to do is to commit to the upheaval of those tribal societies, and force them to modernize. There can be no halfway effort in this, because thats what we've had so far.

Edited by IconOfEvi

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYoIy6RGd6g...feature=channel

more joy from Red Eye

 

Afghanistan is unchanged since prehistory?

iphoto_1235858837593-1-0jpg.jpg

Afghanistan transport circa BC 500? :P

 

We never wanted to "conquer" Afghanistan. The whole point is to pacify the country to the point where it isn't a rouge state actively harbouring and supporting terrorists like Bin Ladin. The initial strategy was to use the warlords to bring the Taliban down.

These Taliban were the last ones to conquer Afghanistan (almost) - remember that they are as much Pakistani as they are Afghan. The bulk of Afghans hate the Taliban. Their rule since the post-soviet civil war has been horrible and highly repressive.

 

There are large parts of the country that are peaceful, the fighting is in the Taliban heartlands in the south. I think the strategy has always been sound. Giving Afghans back their country should work, the issue has been numbers. The commanders have always said they could do a more effective job with enough troops and equipment. Now they are getting some more troops. I think that things should start to improve a year or so down the line from when these extra boots hit the ground.

 

The wildcard will be Pakistan. With such volatility there, events outside of NATO's control could easily impinge on their efforts to bring the south back under the rule of law.

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You guys are not understanding where my pessimism is coming from

 

The fact that you're consistently a clueless twat who has zero grasp of any situation? Seriously, you are possibly the single dumbest human being I have ever had the displeasure of dealing with. Are you really an elaborate troll? No one can be this much of a retard. It's amazing how you manage to completely alienate everyone else with your retarded punit routine. You know nothing about politics and you need to stop posting. I don't know why anyone bothered to unban you, you contribute nothing to any discussion.

Edited by BlckWyerve

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I think it was only a matter of time before the old marine record was broken. Not due to skill, but equipment. He made the kill with a scope-modded .50 cal machine gun on semi-auto mode. A thing meant for spewing lead, spamming aircraft with ball ammo... not for that kind of work.

 

Maybe with more of these extreme range snipers and their weapons the craft can get totally re-thought.

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How dare that american piece of shit insult the brave men and women of the canadian armed forces that way. That rotten little asswipe should be given a date with some of the men of the JTF2 unit, and show that little faggot some respect. I have a friend who is going to afghanistan later this year, and I cannot believe that little freak and his band of retards can get away with putting down the soldiers of the Canadian armed forces like that. We have been fighting the Taliban more than many more powerful European countries have, and we have paid the price in equipment and over 100 brave canadian lives for the war effort and to bring that little anus of a country into the real world.

 

If thats the thanks we get, we should just leave NATO, and let all the other worlds nations do the bleeding.

 

Unbelievable. :angry:

 

/end rant.

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Ohhhhhhhhhhh yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah

 

I agree with Icon on the Afghan thing.

 

iphoto_1235858837593-1-0jpg.jpg

Afghanistan circa BC 500

Well supposing the motors existed back then :lol:. More or less though, that's the exact same spot, 2509 years ago. Some guy trawling past on a bike or a cart or some shit.

 

 

You guys are not understanding where my pessimism is coming from

 

The fact that you're consistently a clueless twat who has zero grasp of any situation? Seriously, you are possibly the single dumbest human being I have ever had the displeasure of dealing with. Are you really an elaborate troll? No one can be this much of a retard. It's amazing how you manage to completely alienate everyone else with your retarded punit routine. You know nothing about politics and you need to stop posting. I don't know why anyone bothered to unban you, you contribute nothing to any discussion.

Wait, so this is before or after you decided to come back or not FOR THE FIFTIETH TIME?

 

rant

 

/rant

Jus chill a bit Kaiser. People can get away with saying things. Americans more or less know Canada slogged into the war too. One only has to look at the western deployment charts :). The anti-Canadian sentiment passed a long time ago.

 

As for the show and event, apparently its supposed to be a satire show (I think we were actually talking about this many many moons ago), but they apparently dunno how to be funny. Grow some skin though man.

 

 

Edited by IconOfEvi

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Some satire. I just cant help but be very pissed off after hearing such idiocy being broadcast on national television. The way that man could shit all over the canadian military, especially after all we have done to help win the afghan war just leaves me outraged. Maybe I should not have lost my temper, but I think I have good reason to.

 

The point of satire is to be funny. That wasn't funny.

 

Edit: At least he apologized. I am not sure if thats good enough but at least its a start.

Edited by Kaiser_Smeghead

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Icon, Blck, stop trolling each other.

 

On topic, that little shithead should put on his boots and do some patrolling with the Canadians in Afghanistan. See how they like that.

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Well now that its established that its a satire show, I dun think much is supposed to be taken seriously. Yes its a really crappy one and he was trawling up many old sterotypes, but on a question of being allowed to say such things, I really say there is no doubt. I mean if we have to tolerate Mr God Hates Fags trolling serviemens funerals, than this is just healthy diluted piss in an ocean of stagnant piss.

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"However, I realize that my words may have been misunderstood. It was not my intent to disrespect the brave men, women and families of the Canadian military, and for that I apologize."

 

And yet he said that the Canadian military was so ineffective anyway that a break probably wouldn't make any difference. I'd call that a direct slap in the face to their soldiers. It's ironic since in WW2 the Canadians were fighting while the US sat on the sidelines.

 

The main problem is that these people wouldn't know satire if it came up and bit them. Sitting around and cracking bad jokes is not in any way a satire. The whole point in satire is to use intelligence and wit to skewer your opponents and bring out some fundamental truth about the absurdity of their position.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ptzml1qQvZE

This is satire.

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Well now that its established that its a satire show, I dun think much is supposed to be taken seriously. Yes its a really crappy one and he was trawling up many old sterotypes, but on a question of being allowed to say such things, I really say there is no doubt. I mean if we have to tolerate Mr God Hates Fags trolling serviemens funerals, than this is just healthy diluted piss in an ocean of stagnant piss.

I find the humor so bad that I refuse to consider it satire. It's just crap. And I reserve the right to be offended by crap.

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Like I said half a year ago...

 

"Alright, that was a bit harsh, and--from an American perspective--I couldn't care less what the Germans do, but the poor Canadians, for example, have been punching above their weight in Afghanistan for over half a decade now and the Germans are sending a lot of people to do jobs in the relatively safe parts of Afghanistan, but avoiding anything that could be misconstrued as "combat" by a highly critical and self-absorbed public. Even the French are helping out more now than the Germans. Pathetic. Rant over."

 

American cable TV news media is stupid. Don't watch it and don't get the mistaken impression that anyone with half a brain in the US watches it, either. At the same time, however, I read a lot of foreign media and I see that we're about par on the international course, overall.

 

I was reading comments from some American troops in Afghanistan. They said there was a recent incident where a US soldier went over to a US reporter and chewed him up and down for a recent comment that so misrepresented the situation that it was basically lies. The whole US unit was pretty ticked about it all. They were stationed there with some Aussie and Brit troops that wondered what they were getting so worked up about. The American soldier told them and the Brits and Aussies laughed, saying that they didn't take their news as seriously, basically rating it as so biased and agenda-driven as to be discounted out-of-hand.

 

I found that interesting.

 

Logan Hartke

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Well having a right to be offended is indeed a right, and it is indeed crap. But again, nothing one can really do about it but ignore it.

 

Remember, piss in an ocean of piss.

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But again, nothing one can really do about it but ignore it.

Hogwash. Boycott the sucker. Write letters to your representatives and Fox studio heads. Demand that equal air time be given by Fox News to coverage of Canadian ops in Afghanistan. Get the guy fired. If that was a Canadian news anchor and US boys, you'd be up in arms, Icon.

 

I'm not saying you should do all that, but you certainly could and you'd not hear me complaining if you did. Canada's been sticking it out in the worst parts of Afghanistan from the beginning and aren't getting any support. That guy was spouting uneducated drivel. If he was on the Howard Stern show, it would be one thing. Even John Stewart and the Onion are smarter than this. I want my satire to be a bit more intelligent.

 

Logan Hartke

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Well you could do that too, though Fox News is a private broadcast entity...what I'm saying is you can't brand his lips together. Also, forcing them to air content would be patently illegal I think.

 

Also the Onion is fucking genius. There is satire.

 

Remember guys, people have the right, even the right to say dumb shit.

Edited by IconOfEvi

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You could sue them. Well canadians could. That there is ripe material for a lawsuit.

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Even John Stewart and the Onion are smarter than this. I want my satire to be a bit more intelligent.

 

You referring to the Onion's old 'Canadian Vessel' article from a few years back, where the insurgents were quoted as saying "Canadians? Who gave them guns?"

 

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