What About The Swastikas-patch?

[Count von Phoib 0]

Yes.

 

They were "moved" to temporary refugee camps, where they still live, to this day.

[flyby 0]

How else do you think you can create a new state in 3 years?

 

In order to house the enormous influx of immigrants, whole Palestinian towns were flattened and the people driven away without proper or humane compensation. The Israeli territory needed expansion and fast. And that's were the origin of all terror actions is rooted. How would you feel if they flatten your home town, destroy your crop fields on the accusation you grow "illegal plants", etc...

I'm not surprised most Americans don't have an accurate picture of what's happening in the Middle East. Your media is way too biased.

 

What’s really perverted is that the Israeli government used (abused) the military reaction of the population and the Arabs in general as pretext to conquer even more territory and flatten more houses, in order to “fight against terrorism” and the right to defend themselves.

 

I won’t deny the evil character of groups like Hamaz, but for a part, Israel now gets the boomerang effect of what it has caused before...

 

some historical perspective:

http://www.trumanlibrary.org/israel/timeline.htm

[Fritz 0]

probably biggest reason of anti-semitism is coz everyone hates us, america

I seriously don't get that one!

I mean just because our "president" here in Germany (Gerhard Schröder) was against the war that doesn't mean that we hate america or are all against the war! To be honest I support America in it's war against Iraq and Afghanistan. I think we should all be thankfull to the US because they send their soldiers to fight for a better world without terrorrism etc.

If the US wouldn't do it now then we had to do it in 5 years time and then I myself probably had to go to war aswell! So if you think about it logically we should all thank the US for cleaning the world from people like Saddam Hussein and

Bin Laden! ....I just wish the US would have done the same with Hitler 1933!!! :(

[Corporal Upham 0]

well, Israel is the one link to western society in the middle east. out of like 11 countries i think in that region, theyre the only democracy. the rest are "islamic" republics or some other form of oppressive govments. Israel could have been a turning point in the middle east, a turn towards modernization, if the other arab nations didnt hate it that much :(

[kornlord283 0]

....I just wish the US would have done the same with Hitler 1933!!!

Red Alert 1? :(

 

I seriously don't get that one!

if you dont get my statement, well look how many times richer we are compared to people living in that region. and yet a large percentage of our foreign aid goes to israel, which obviously isnt very fair for the palestinians. the "boomerang effect" is definitely the best way I have heard that describes the israel-palestine conflict. israel's insertion into the middle east simply shoved palestinians into enough of a hell for them, so repurcussions suffered in the form of islamic extremism probably pays back enough of what was done.

 

not that terrorism is for a good cause, but these people have been stirred into believing that america is bad, israel is bad, western society is bad...and when you all go back, it turns out as the american and european's fault.

 

after ww1, the allies were the ones who put germany in a technological lockdown. germany became poor, then the depressions of the world came. hitler found his chance and came to power. in order to increase public opinion toward him, he found a scapegoat, the jewish population. hitler lived in a generation of anti-western hatred due to the aftermaths of ww1 in germany.

 

after ww2 ended, the zionist movement came to a new realization as the truth of the holocaust came to be known. a jewish state was put in the middle east, replacing the existing palestinians.

 

we set the stage for hitler's rise, we set the stage for the massive anti-semitism after ww2, so now we are paying for our oversights and blunders.

Edited December 23, 2003 by kornlord283

[Biohazard 0]

This place is a powder keg ready to explode with slight provocation. If anything starts, I'm locking down. Until then, carry on, but watch your step. I'm personally not going to get involved.

[flyby 0]

Don't worry Jagd.. I'm here ;-)

[Fritz 0]

after ww1, the allies were the ones who put germany in a technological lockdown. germany became poor, then the depressions of the world came. hitler found his chance and came to power. in order to increase public opinion toward him, he found a scapegoat, the jewish population. hitler lived in a generation of anti-western hatred due to the aftermaths of ww1 in germany.

 

after ww2 ended, the zionist movement came to a new realization as the truth of the holocaust came to be known. a jewish state was put in the middle east, replacing the existing palestinians.

 

we set the stage for hitler's rise, we set the stage for the massive anti-semitism after ww2, so now we are paying for our oversights and blunders.

;) Dude you are smart!

 

But still I think we should still thank the US instead of picking on it ánd turning things around!! I heard people talk and when i thought about what they were saying I realized that they thought Saddam is the good and Bush the bad guy in this conflict! THAT IS JUST NOT RIGHT! People forget who got attacked on September 11th! Saddam is not the poor victim in this conflict! :lol:

[Corporal Upham 0]

its not the US's fault the world is crummy, its some serbian nationalist's fault.....ferdinand got shot, his country got pissed, both sides started a war. it would have been a small war, but both sides called on their allies and so it turned into a war to end all wars. when it ended, the versailles treaty didnt put Germany into a tight enough lockdown, we left them room to recover, and WWII started. United Nations is created, WWII ends, United Nations helps heal Europe after decades of war. People start feeling sorry for the Jews and their long history of oppression from the islamics the romans the christians the nazis, basically everyone, and boot the palestinians out of their homes, giving it to the Jews. Palistinians are pissed, start suiciding everything, jews are pissed, start sending helicopters to attack "suspects" and end up killing children, palestinians get even more pissed, start sending more suicide attacks in markets, trains, buses, schools, you name it, theyll blow it up. jews get so pissed they surround arafats complex with tanks until the matter is temporarily resolved. now, we have the whole big issue of THE WALL as i call it. Oh dear God, when will this all end? Can't we all just.........get along?

[Neospecz 0]

The only thing that bothers me is if an Islamic nation is, as they describe it, oppressed by a Western nation, this Islamic nation claims that such attack is an attack in Islam itself. Thus calling forth all radicals to attack the 'infidels', the sad part is the ones who get torn apart are civilians. Can any of you explain this to me? In the early stages of the Iraq, even the Afghanistan war, I've seen on CNN like there's this angry mob holding signs saying 'Attack on Iraq/Afghanistan is an attack on Islam'. Is this written in the Koran or just an excuse to stage terrorist attacks?

[flyby 0]

It is called "manipulation of religion " to serve other goals.

 

Making conflicts into a religious conflicts is a sure way to rally more people behind your (in)just cause.

The Islam is a pretty tolerant religion, although we might get a different impression of it, when observing it from the Christian side.

Dragging religion into war attitudes to heat up the conflict is something of all times and locations in human history.

 

The Koran has indeed a self-preservation module, but everything can be explained in different ways. and some extremists just read what they want to see in the Koran, just as you can read the Bible and use it to base ethnic cleansing on....

 

I cringe as much when Ayatollah’s call for a Jihad (Holy war), as when Christian preachers say that God has chosen the side of their president in the war against evil. Both do the same, only you have to have an open mind to see it...

 

Islamic nations only criticise the foreign politics of the Us and western countries in general. It is not the nations that have attacked the US, but extremists among the common people that decided that their only option is a armed struggle, with whatever weapon that they can get their hands on. The anti-American attitude lives more among the civilian population then among their leaders.

 

The only thing I hope is that the democracy experiment will succeed in Iraq, because if not, If fear it have destabilized the region even more. The risk is not minor that a Saudi revolution would remove all the pro western kings and princes, because there is a growing unhappiness among the Saudis. More and more western ppl are getting killed over there, more bomb attacks, unequal wealth, ...

[Corporal Upham 0]

as when Christian preachers say that God has chosen the side of their president in the war against evil

 

are you insinuating that bush is doing the same thing that osama and company are doing? B)

 

well, guess i see what you mean, bush shouldnt have dragged religion into this. but he did make it clear that this was a war on terror, islam is not the enmy, in one of his speeches i think

[kornlord283 0]

thank you for the comment fritz :)

 

bush said the war against terrorism was a "crusade" in one speech. afterwards, somebody from his office appoligized for the wrong choice of words ;)

 

flyby is right again and again :(

there is that difference in point of view that really draws the line between what we call "extremist" and "normal". beyond that, well, he already explained it in his post, so im not going to repeat any of it.

 

back to the iraqi war...i am not saying that the war in iraq was bad in any way; Bush had good intentions but the reconstruction of iraq was not organized good enough. instituting a new government where the old regime reigned terror theoretically should be easy, as many people would be very happy to let go of the old tyrant and to a new government. however, we (the US) have underestimated (or at least failed to heavily consider) a few things:

 

1. an american entrance into the middle east by force without a real good reason (saddam is a bad man, but he didnt really do anything bad to us) would create a VERY HEAVY impression (especially after afghanistan) that we are trying to force our way of democracy among them, step by step.

 

2. (not really underestimated, but this is a problem) although there are no seriously rogue cities, there is plenty of resistance in many areas, and obviously if you watch the news often, you will hear of terror attacks in baghdad and paramilitary attacks in other parts of iraq against coalition forces, so just like in afghanistan, setting up a government after the old regime has been cleared out will bog down the process of gaining trust from the people and bringing much safety issues.

 

the second problem will always exist in every invasion into every hostile nation, so there is no big problem about that, however at least they should do something better than say "We are developing new defense systems for our helicopters. These should be availble in a few years" leaving the next few years with more and more attacks.

 

the first problem is very major. our first step into this blunder was going into iraq with no satisfactory reason and with almost no allies other than tony blair (notice I didnt say britain/england), which kinda isolated us from the rest of the world. second step in the problem was staying this way throughout the rest of the war until the very end, when i think some foreign troops were called in for keeping the peace. third step was not insuring good safety, translating into..alot of people in iraq still hate america. just because we have gotten rid of saddam and his followers doesnt mean we are idolized, sometimes we have caused damage for pro-saddam workers.

 

capturing saddam has helped us in that now we have captured and can prosecute the man accused of massive crimes against humanity. we can also hopefully squeeze info on the alleged bio/chem and maybe nuclear weapons iraq possessed secretly but have still not been found.

 

so hopefully, the next time we invade some other country, we are better prepared

Edited December 24, 2003 by kornlord283

[Comradesniper 0]

I must say, that as a Communist, i hate americas ideals and the country's i live in. But, i dont go around causing terror and killing innocent people. Im generally not a prick like that.

 

I do hate the americans glut, and their americanisation (sp?). I also hate the way they think they can order other countries around, and dictate what weapons, forces and government they have. You may see yourselves as Liberating Iraq. But, you just cant go and start a war, because you dont like their government and you think they have weapons of mass destruction.

 

(Also, it isnt necisarily liberation because you arnt reclaiming the land from an invader. YOU are the invader.)

 

However, i do agree with the fight against terrorists. These people who use underhanded tactics, terror weapons and general crap against their enemies need to be sorted. I donot agree that Iraq was related to Terrorism, or supplying terrorists with weapons and resourses.

 

(And if this post gets erased for its anti-american content, il personally stick a red hot poker up their jacksey. you have been warned ;)

[downslayer 0]

DUDE, NOT ALL AMERICANS ARE LIKE THAT GOATRAPING REDNECK BUSH...I FOR ONE DIDNT AGREE WITH IRAQ WAR....NOT BECAUSE I AM ANTI-US MILITARY, BUT ITS JUST THAT I KNEW AHEAD OF TIME THAT OUR MEN WOULD DIE FOR NOTHING...WHERES THE WMDS? THE WHOLE SADDAM CAPTURE TO ME SEEMS JUST A LIL BIT TO FISHY....BUT THATS ME....NOW WE ARE GOING INTO LYBIA...DEAR GOD, I SEE AN EMPIRE SPREADIN ACROSS THE GLOBE...AND THIS ISNT GOOD...BECAUSE OF OUR "NOT ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE PRES." WE ARE HAVING ALL THIS BS HATRED TOWARDS US...THE AMERICAN PEOPLE...WELL, DONT CAST JUDGMENT ON US ALL...OK...I FOR ONE WOULD LOVE FOR OUR FORCES TO COME HOME AND GUARD "OUR LANDS"....JUST REMEMBER SNIPER, US AMERICANS ARE PROUD OF WHO "WE" ARE...AND A LOT OF US ARE NOT PROUD OF OUR GOVT.S WAY OF HANDLING THE WORLDS POLICING....I SAY LET ALL COUNTRIES DEAL WITH THEIR OWN....LEAVE THEM ALONE....IF THEY INVADE THIS COUNTRY THEN THROW ME AN M-60 AND LETS ROCK....

DOWNSLAYER...A PROUD AMERICAN!!!

[Comradesniper 0]

holy crap i was only saying what I think.

 

no need to get all angryfied.

 

face the truth. A lot of people hate America. I am one of them. and in your democracy, i belive opinion is important to you? so you dont like my opinion. And if you belive, as a democracy, that everyone can VOICE their opinion...

 

then you arnt much of a democrat, are you?

 

EDIT

 

You also stereotype. If youve heard what has been said about communists... well. Im not evil, I dont want to take over the world, and I dont think Stalin was exactly caring. OK?

 

EDIT EDIT

 

I am no longer going to veiw the posts of this thread, so you may as well drop the issue anyway.

 

Now, let the thing rest. I have an opinion. And in this country, i can voice that opinion.

 

 

You have freedom of speech. That's why this post is still around. Only everyone else has the same right and may call you an asshole if that's what they feel to speak. Long live the USA! - Jagdtiger

Edited December 24, 2003 by JagdTiger

[rommel 0]

As the archtype conservative texan lemme just ask comradesniper why you hate capitalism?

 

I love capitalism, It's why i Live very nicely.

 

 

Personally, I think terrorism is caused because we unilaterally support israel no matter what they do!

 

I think we should renounce military aid to israeal and support the paklestinian cause.....

 

After all it is their land!

[downslayer 0]

sniper i wasnt mad, like you i was just speaking my mind...you are entitled to your say....free speech...its a beauty...and being communist doesnt make you evil, or a bad guy...but if you are going to come on here and shit talk us americans then you can expect some hostility....as for what our ideals are are not our ideals...they are the ruling elite in this country....their ideals...i say fuck war...it just kills life...but some see it as population control...true...but its just insane minds making profit from misery!!!!

[Comradesniper 0]

As the archtype conservative texan lemme just ask comradesniper why you hate capitalism?

I hate capitalism, because of the vast gaps in rich and poor. Being from a poor background, and seeing the total disregard THIS government (this may not apply to yours) has for the poorer classes.

 

Well, anyway. I see that the anti-communist hatred still runs deep. ;)

 

well, the cold war has long passed. Lets not start another one :) :(

[Comradesniper 0]

sniper i wasnt mad, like you i was just speaking my mind... *snip*

sorry, its just that way you SHOUTED it, i thought it was an insult. ;)

 

So its a big misunderstanding.

[downslayer 0]

just wanted to get it across.........

[Comradesniper 0]

anyway... where were we? ;)

[rommel 0]

I hate capitalism, because of the vast gaps in rich and poor. Being from a poor background, and seeing the total disregard THIS government (this may not apply to yours) has for the poorer classes.

 

Well, anyway. I see that the anti-communist hatred still runs deep. ;)

 

well, the cold war has long passed. Lets not start another one :) :(

In capitalism, the poor are poor due to lack of motivation or inability, with enough work anyone can find success....

 

The poor are disregarded because helping them would require taking away the wealth of those who earned it.

 

Anti-communism is still common across the south, a friend once told me that the war on terror should include invasions of cuba and vietnam because they are communist.

[Comradesniper 0]

yeah, yeah, ok. can we drop the subject now?

 

Me communist, you anti communist.

[rommel 0]

yeah, yeah, ok. can we drop the subject now?

 

Me communist, you anti communist.

Not anti communist,

 

Just pro capitalist......

 

Anyway, I say america should invade these terror supporting nations:

 

COUNTRY REASON

Lybia WMDS

Iran Nukes

Somalia Killed our soldiers in 93, mogadisu must be firebombed.

Saudi Arabia Provides cash to terrorists

Syria: harbored baath party members after gw2