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Bahmo

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Now, let's start with the first thing. No, you are not the only ones who had the idea for a Mario C&C mod. I, too, had the idea, but not any way to do it. I did, however, start speculating, and I have numerous ideas for units, as well as drawings of things I wanted.

 

I don't know how far along you guys are with this (not very, if the scarcity of info on the site is any indication) but I thought I would submit my ideas, just in case you'd like to use them, starting with a drawing I did of some Koopa structures. I also have the Koopa Command Center modeled; although it is strictly amateur, you may be able to touch it up and use it, as well as a drawing of some Mushroom Kingdom sculptures.

 

I don't have most of the stuff here right now, but I'll do my best to find/remember it.

 

So great job again, guys! Also, have you tried promoting this on www.mfgg.net? Because I'm sure they'll love the idea!

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Hey there, Bahmo.

The RA3 version is the 2nd rendition of this mod. TAKTICS was originally for Red Alert 2: Yuri's Revenge for over 4 years, but our ambitions overloaded that engine. So we had to make the switch or drop the project altogether. We also ditched our previous homebase forums, which accounts for the lack of material posted here, as these are fresh forums. With that fresh forum smell. MMMMmmm

 

Progress was pretty knee deep before the switch and somewhat slow considering it is a 2 man project. We had most of the EBN (or the Shy Guy side) units/vehicles/buildings done, as we tend to work on 1 side at a time, as well as Grass Land's terrain and some civilian buildings/vehicles completed. It was demo ready, more-or-less. Luckily everything was done in 3D already, so when the switch happened, it was very easy to reuse and/or touch up the material without having to start over.

 

Plans and ideas of the other 2 sides, in terms of aesthetic and design, haven't been set in stone as of yet, but they have been thought upon. The Koopa buildings and their behaviours, for example, will be quite different from any other side in this mod. Just don't ask what I mean as we like to keep the cards close to our chest. It spoils the surprise if we told. :lol:

 

Now your ideas for the Koopa's buildings or more-or-less how this mod operates-- throw in a bit of references and/or details from the official games. They don't really fit with our grand Koopa scheme, though. :( But by all means, go ahead and post a render of your model. It would be nice to see another take on the subject.

 

Any other ideas are also welcome. :)

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Now your ideas for the Koopa's buildings or more-or-less how this mod operates-- throw in a bit of references and/or details from the official games. They don't really fit with our grand Koopa scheme, though. :( But by all means, go ahead and post a render of your model. It would be nice to see another take on the subject.

 

Any other ideas are also welcome. :)

 

Naturally, I can't exactly be sure of what you want out of me from you're not telling me what sort of motif you're going with. From what I can see of the EBN models, assuming you're still using those for this version, it seems that your take on this is using fairly conventional military hardware and structures, except with the emblems of the various factions. I also had a bit of modernization in mind, but I wanted to maintain much greater fidelity to the Mario series as a whole. Hence, I designed the Koopa structures to be more similar to how they look in existing Mario games, with such factors as the big red boss door from Bowser's castle, as well as a command center that looks like a Bowser statue, and a barracks that looks like the spiked shells from Mario Kart. I don't exactly see how that is terribly contrary to what you're doing, either, as it seems you were trying to do much the same sort of immitation with regard to the Grassland terrain, and no offense, but I'm a little upset you're being secretive about your plans, and as to why they're contrary. Maintaining a two-person staff and expecting to finish the project seems too optimistic, in my opinion.

 

However, as to the "throw in a bit of references and/or details from the official games" bit, I assure you that I had. For example, the basic infantry I had for the Koopas were the "Bullet Bros," updated versions of the Hammer Bros, except with guns. Also, said guns are portable versions of the Bullet Bill turrets. I also envisioned a Lakitu unit, but spinies are maybe a little weak, so I concieved him as using the focused light ray weapons that some of the Lakitus used in Yoshi's Island. The final Koopa infantry (or is it a vehicle?) unit I concieved was the Bob-omb, useful for suicide bombing the enemy. Very powerful; their main weakness is that they can't take many hits before being blown up prematurely, and can be prone to chain reactions if used in groups.

 

For base defenses, the Koopas would have regular Bullet Bill turrets for anti-vehicle fire, the firebreathing Bowser statues that are in some games as an anti-infantry weapon, and pihranna plants, less able to dish out and take damage, but able to burrow in the ground, making them useful for cutting off choke points.

 

Finally, vehicles. I concieved of a tank called a Tyrant, somewhat modeled after Bowser's Kart of the same name from Mario Kart: Double Dash. Never actually drew it, but I could try. Then, there would be those most dreaded of Koopa Vehicles, the Doom Ships. Somewhat like Kirovs, but maybe more versatile with less hit points.

 

As for the Mushroom Kingdom, I had few ideas for vehicles, but did come up with some infantry and building concepts. The basic infantrymen, Toads, would wield Super Scopes, which would function similarly to how they do in the Super Smash Bros. series. The primary function is a rapid fire shot, but the secondary allows the Toads to charge up and fire a more powerful shot all at once. The disadvantage of this is that charging the shot takes time, and once they fire it they need to charge it again. However, this mode can be useful for hit and run shots, and with enough numbers, they could feasibly all fire their charge shots at once to destroy even very heavy structures. Then, I wanted a Yoshi unit, whose primary ability would be to simply eat enemies, but whose secondary ability would be to throw eggs at them. I thought maybe the transforming into vehicles could also be cool, but it might be a little difficult. Finally, I thought of maybe having a "shadow commando," basically a female, Vivian-like Shadow Siren unit that functions as a ghost. Its weapon could be either a sniper rifle, something similar, or just its natural fire element powers, and it would be functionally invisible when not attacking.

 

For structures, I concieved of the Mushroom Kingdom being initially weaker on defense than the Koopas, but with some late game strategies to turn the tide. For example, I think they should have a "Pipe Network," similar to the tunnel networks in Generals, as well as a "Pipe Ambush" commander power to be purchased and used occasionally, which would cause an outlet of the network to sprout in a location of the commander's choice. Finally, they'd have a "Star Shrine;" a building resembling a giant version of the classic star power up, which functions similarly to the Iron Curtain, except it also works on infantry to make them invulnerable.

 

That's what I came up with so far.

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emot-ssiren_clean.gifCAUTION LONG REPLY AHEAD.emot-ssiren_clean.gif

 

From what I can see of the EBN models, assuming you're still using those for this version, it seems that your take on this is using fairly conventional military hardware and structures, except with the emblems of the various factions.

It is unfortunate that there isn't much material in SMB2 in terms of buildings other than flat mushroom houses and Wart's golden palace. This is why EBN's building designs are plain, boring and very close to C&C's look. :lol: I actually wanted a Persian-esque feel for all the buildings to bring EBN back to it's roots. That would probably be seen as poor taste and/or racist all things considered (EBN being the oppressor and all around evil). :(

 

I also had a bit of modernization in mind, but I wanted to maintain much greater fidelity to the Mario series as a whole. Hence, I designed the Koopa structures to be more similar to how they look in existing Mario games, with such factors as the big red boss door from Bowser's castle, as well as a command center that looks like a Bowser statue, and a barracks that looks like the spiked shells from Mario Kart. I don't exactly see how that is terribly contrary to what you're doing, either, as it seems you were trying to do much the same sort of immitation with regard to the Grassland terrain, [...]

Don't get me wrong, we do want the references and a somewhat similar feel to the Bowser buildings. Our idea for the buildings themselves, though, and not their design, is radically different to 'regular' buildings. Your ideas are "grounded", so to speak. ;)

 

Plus, Bowser was more into castles and fortresses, not giant shells for roofs. :blink: Of course, the main Koopa construction building will sport Bowser's visage as he naturally narcissistic and it's a common staple in any Mario game.

 

and no offense, but I'm a little upset you're being secretive about your plans, and as to why they're contrary. Maintaining a two-person staff and expecting to finish the project seems too optimistic, in my opinion.

None taken. We just don't want to spoil anything, story-wise or gameplay-wise. At least not yet.

A 2 person project is fine as we are in no real rush. We might need another for terrain, as it is lagging behind, but that can be rectified as we get more familiar with the new engine.

 

Now for your ideas. Let me apologise in advanced if I come out a little negative and blunt; some ideas can be obvious and a repeat of ones we have already. There is a definite disadvantage for you as we had a nice thread for ideas already in the previous forum but let's dive in anyways.

 

For example, the basic infantry I had for the Koopas were the "Bullet Bros," updated versions of the Hammer Bros, except with guns. Also, said guns are portable versions of the Bullet Bill turrets.

Wouldn't "basic" infantry be the Koopa Troopas? And wouldn't the Hammer Bros and their variations be considered as a 'heavy' infantry and not basic? There's no need to slap on a gun to a character that has more varied weapons. Like the Fire Bros.. :)

 

I also envisioned a Lakitu unit, but spinies are maybe a little weak, so I concieved him as using the focused light ray weapons that some of the Lakitus used in Yoshi's Island.

Yeah, Lakitus would be interesting and I agree we'd have to change their Spiny toss to something more dangerous. I don't know about the 'focused light ray' but an easier solution would to replace Spinies with Bob-Ombs.

 

The final Koopa infantry (or is it a vehicle?) unit I concieved was the Bob-omb, useful for suicide bombing the enemy. Very powerful; their main weakness is that they can't take many hits before being blown up prematurely, and can be prone to chain reactions if used in groups.

We are not too crazy about self destructing units. In an RTS, its usually a comedy option for more explosions and, who would want to pump out 1 Bob-Omb at a time that might not make it to their destination instead of just parachuting a bunch down. We can even have the Bob-Oms walk around aimlessly if they don't impact directly.

 

For base defenses, the Koopas would have regular Bullet Bill turrets for anti-vehicle fire

Bullet Bills were mostly an air nuisance; they never aimed at the ground or at the player's feet. Which is why Bills will be an anti-air defense instead.

 

the firebreathing Bowser statues that are in some games as an anti-infantry weapon

That's a bit heavy for the first defensive structure. Definitely as a higher tiered defense. Also, didn't the laser spouting Bowser statues come first?

 

pihranna plants, less able to dish out and take damage, but able to burrow in the ground, making them useful for cutting off choke points.

Piranha Plants were always stuck in a pipe and I think that's how we'll keep it. There was also the fireball variation that could attack both high and low which I believe is the one we'll use. We had a similar defensive structure for the EBN, Cobrat in a vase, that was axed since it was too similar.

 

I concieved of a tank called a Tyrant, somewhat modeled after Bowser's Kart of the same name from Mario Kart: Double Dash.

I don't like the idea of the Koopa tanks to bear the face of their leader. Or to be named after him. Though I did model a plane based on his kart from Mario Kart DS. Maybe I'll warm to the idea when we get there.

 

Then, there would be those most dreaded of Koopa Vehicles, the Doom Ships. Somewhat like Kirovs, but maybe more versatile with less hit points.

An obvious idea. Though we did branch out the Airship idea throughout the entire Koopa faction.

 

The basic infantrymen, Toads, would wield Super Scopes, which would function similarly to how they do in the Super Smash Bros. series. The primary function is a rapid fire shot, but the secondary allows the Toads to charge up and fire a more powerful shot all at once. The disadvantage of this is that charging the shot takes time, and once they fire it they need to charge it again. However, this mode can be useful for hit and run shots, and with enough numbers, they could feasibly all fire their charge shots at once to destroy even very heavy structures.

No Super Scopes. References to characters and buildings is a-ok but to the actual hardware? No thanks. What's next? A Virtual Boy embedded into a Bandit to make them look more 'tech'-y. Why would the other factions have guns and Toads have a cheap plastic toy. Unless it is reference to the movie... :lol: No.

 

Then, I wanted a Yoshi unit, whose primary ability would be to simply eat enemies, but whose secondary ability would be to throw eggs at them. I thought maybe the transforming into vehicles could also be cool, but it might be a little difficult.

Yoshis can either be randomly created (so you wouldn't know if it's a Red or Blue or even a generic Green Yoshi) or have a "weapon grabber" (his tongue obviously) and that would change his abilities and colour.

Funny how you said Spinies, a ball of spikes, would be too weak, but you didn't bat an eye for Yoshi eggs.

 

Personally, I have mixed feelings about including Yoshi at all. They're from a different region completely, Dinosaur Land, which will not be seen in this project. It's like adding in Donkey Kong for the hell of it.

I know Yoshis are a closer part of the Mario universe, but they are always pretty isolated in every game and never mingle with the Mushroom Kingdom.

 

Finally, I thought of maybe having a "shadow commando," basically a female, Vivian-like Shadow Siren unit that functions as a ghost. Its weapon could be either a sniper rifle, something similar, or just its natural fire element powers, and it would be functionally invisible when not attacking.

Why would some one shot group, created for Paper Mario 2, appear to help the Toad side? I mean, Koopa has the Boos already and I don't think we need yet another ghost-type unit for another side.

 

For example, I think they should have a "Pipe Network," similar to the tunnel networks in Generals, as well as a "Pipe Ambush" commander power to be purchased and used occasionally, which would cause an outlet of the network to sprout in a location of the commander's choice.

Pipes used for transporting units, should not and will not be side exclusive. If possible, a pipe clog special ability, negating the tunnel system for a bit, could be funny but that's a little too devious and evil for the Toads.

 

Finally, they'd have a "Star Shrine;" a building resembling a giant version of the classic star power up, which functions similarly to the Iron Curtain, except it also works on infantry to make them invulnerable.

Yeah, this was one of the first ideas we had for the Toads. We even thought of the "Star" prefix for most buildings.

This will definitely be in.

 

Phew. Nice to see more and different opinions. :)

Edited by Arikado

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It is unfortunate that there isn't much material in SMB2 in terms of buildings other than flat mushroom houses and Wart's golden palace. This is why EBN's building designs are plain, boring and very close to C&C's look. :lol: I actually wanted a Persian-esque feel for all the buildings to bring EBN back to it's roots. That would probably be seen as poor taste and/or racist all things considered (EBN being the oppressor and all around evil). :(

 

Doki Doki Panic/Super Mario Bros. 2 really is heavy on the Middle Eastern motif, so if you really wanted to maintain that you could theoretically just change the plot. It's not unheard of in C&C games to see an army splinter and fight amongst themselves; in RA3 the Soviets fragged their own evil leader, for example. Again, though, I don't know about what you're going for here, so I can't say too much.

 

Don't get me wrong, we do want the references and a somewhat similar feel to the Bowser buildings. Our idea for the buildings themselves, though, and not their design, is radically different to 'regular' buildings. Your ideas are "grounded", so to speak. ;)

 

Again, I can't really argue against that because I have no idea what sort of unconventional you mean, except by saying I wish you were more open. Zerg drones mutating into structures? I somehow doubt it.

 

Plus, Bowser was more into castles and fortresses, not giant shells for roofs. :blink: Of course, the main Koopa construction building will sport Bowser's visage as he naturally narcissistic and it's a common staple in any Mario game.

 

Glad to hear your Command Center will be somewhat similar. As to the shell, it really depends upon the game; for example, his castle in New Super Mario Bros. had one..

 

None taken. We just don't want to spoil anything, story-wise or gameplay-wise. At least not yet.

A 2 person project is fine as we are in no real rush. We might need another for terrain, as it is lagging behind, but that can be rectified as we get more familiar with the new engine.

 

OK, the spoiler part is understandable. You'll have to expect, though, that now that you've opened the floodgate and let people know the mod exists, people are going to start bugging you about revealing more info and getting it done soon. I personally am above that, but much of the Internet is not.

 

Wouldn't "basic" infantry be the Koopa Troopas? And wouldn't the Hammer Bros and their variations be considered as a 'heavy' infantry and not basic? There's no need to slap on a gun to a character that has more varied weapons. Like the Fire Bros.. :)

 

I considered that as well. What it came down to, though, was the lesser of two evils. In the case of Koopa Troopas, you'd need to add some sort of weapon to them in order to make them very useful, whereas with the Bros, they already had three versions using three different projectile weapons, so while the technology level of the weapons would need to be upgraded, I felt projectiles in general fit them more than the Koopa Troopas. Perhaps you are right, though; that should be a heavier unit, in which case I hope you keep the portable bullet bill launcher. If the Koopa Troopa is the basic infantry, I'm assuming at least one function is to get in his shell and slide forward.

 

Yeah, Lakitus would be interesting and I agree we'd have to change their Spiny toss to something more dangerous. I don't know about the 'focused light ray' but an easier solution would to replace Spinies with Bob-Ombs.

 

Okay, that works.

 

We are not too crazy about self destructing units. In an RTS, its usually a comedy option for more explosions and, who would want to pump out 1 Bob-Omb at a time that might not make it to their destination instead of just parachuting a bunch down. We can even have the Bob-Oms walk around aimlessly if they don't impact directly.

 

You're right, so that might be a reason to go with the idea of Lakitus throwing them.

 

Bullet Bills were mostly an air nuisance; they never aimed at the ground or at the player's feet. Which is why Bills will be an anti-air defense instead.

 

Good; whatever works.

 

That's a bit heavy for the first defensive structure. Definitely as a higher tiered defense. Also, didn't the laser spouting Bowser statues come first?

 

Yes; it was in Super Mario Bros. 3. It sounds like that's what you want as an early defense.

 

Piranha Plants were always stuck in a pipe and I think that's how we'll keep it. There was also the fireball variation that could attack both high and low which I believe is the one we'll use. We had a similar defensive structure for the EBN, Cobrat in a vase, that was axed since it was too similar.

 

Makes sense, I suppose, although you'll probably need to give it a severe firing rate upgrade so it can serve as a weapon.

 

I concieved of a tank called a Tyrant, somewhat modeled after Bowser's Kart of the same name from Mario Kart: Double Dash.

I don't like the idea of the Koopa tanks to bear the face of their leader. Or to be named after him. Though I did model a plane based on his kart from Mario Kart DS. Maybe I'll warm to the idea when we get there.

 

Okay, just bear in mind that there isn't a lot else to base things on other Bowser's narcisism. Although given your excellent idea to use Bowser's plane based on his clown-car, I think maybe the DryBomber from the same game could work; I just think it's a bit too generic as tanks go.

 

Then, there would be those most dreaded of Koopa Vehicles, the Doom Ships. Somewhat like Kirovs, but maybe more versatile with less hit points.

An obvious idea. Though we did branch out the Airship idea throughout the entire Koopa faction.

 

Nice to hear that, although again, I don't know exactly what you mean.

 

No Super Scopes. References to characters and buildings is a-ok but to the actual hardware? No thanks. What's next? A Virtual Boy embedded into a Bandit to make them look more 'tech'-y. Why would the other factions have guns and Toads have a cheap plastic toy. Unless it is reference to the movie... :lol: No.

 

The basic reason it's more than just a toy is the reference to its function in the SSB series, where it legitimitely is a match for "real" weapons. Though you may be right that it's better reserved for Nintendo tributes in general than for mods specific to the Mario series, I don't really see what other sort of gun fits any better with the Toads. I thought fireballs or SMB2 vegetables initially, but those would be much too weak/short-ranged.

 

Funny how you said Spinies, a ball of spikes, would be too weak, but you didn't bat an eye for Yoshi eggs.

 

Well, they arguably were more powerful in Yoshi's own games, making them arguably powerful enough.

 

Personally, I have mixed feelings about including Yoshi at all. They're from a different region completely, Dinosaur Land, which will not be seen in this project. It's like adding in Donkey Kong for the hell of it.

I know Yoshis are a closer part of the Mario universe, but they are always pretty isolated in every game and never mingle with the Mushroom Kingdom.

 

They do if you count the cameo games. Of course, DK does as well, but not nearly to that extent.

 

Why would some one shot group, created for Paper Mario 2, appear to help the Toad side? I mean, Koopa has the Boos already and I don't think we need yet another ghost-type unit for another side.

 

With respect to the first, it's a little bit of the same reason I wanted Yoshi. It would be more interesting than just having all infantry be Toads, even if its proportionately less accurate to the games. Also, I feel that underrated Mario characters don't get enough love, or recur in games the way that they should. As to second, I meant "ghost" in the guerilla sense of the term, not a spiritual apparition; although here it seems there's a good deal of crossover.

 

Pipes used for transporting units, should not and will not be side exclusive. If possible, a pipe clog special ability, negating the tunnel system for a bit, could be funny but that's a little too devious and evil for the Toads.

 

Makes sense, I suppose.

 

Finally, they'd have a "Star Shrine;" a building resembling a giant version of the classic star power up, which functions similarly to the Iron Curtain, except it also works on infantry to make them invulnerable.

Yeah, this was one of the first ideas we had for the Toads. We even thought of the "Star" prefix for most buildings.

This will definitely be in.

 

Phew. Nice to see more and different opinions. :)

 

It would be nicer for me if I saw why you had more of your opinions, but I trust I will, in due time.

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Dropping hints like they're outta style.

 

so if you really wanted to maintain that you could theoretically just change the plot. [...]

I'll just say this: you are right on the money.

 

Again, I can't really argue against that because I have no idea what sort of unconventional you mean

I hinted it in the Doomship reply.

 

As to the shell, it really depends upon the game; for example, his castle in New Super Mario Bros. had one..

I don't remember anything about NSMB other than awful slippery controls and Bowser Junior.

 

you've opened the floodgate and let people know the mod exists, people are going to start bugging you about revealing more info and getting it done soon

But by not putting anything on the table, the "internet" has no idea what this mod is about other than 2 pictures. If anything, they'll think its just Mario with guns.

 

although you'll probably need to give it a severe firing rate upgrade so it can serve as a weapon.

You're assuming we're using the Command & Conquer damage conventions. We're not-- units are cheap and brittle. :lol:

 

I think maybe the DryBomber from the same game could work; I just think it's a bit too generic as tanks go.

Agreed.

 

It would be nicer for me if I saw why you had more of your opinions, but I trust I will, in due time.

You bet. :)

 

You know, with the RA3 engine, you could always add a Yoshi faction

williamdafoe.jpg

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I'm not quite sure how well a whole faction based around Yoshis would be done in RA3. The core mechanic would probably center around Yoshi troopers that could transform into vehicles. Quite similar to what happens in Starcraft, but I don't see anything similar in RA3, except for the Empire's transforming units, but they morph into only one alternate form.

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Which is fine as you'd want a nice variety of multicoloured Yoshis that can transform into their own vehicle. You could even mix it up with differently camouflaged Yoshis turning into different tanks/planes and whatnot. Inject some creativity.

 

Moot point as there won't be a Yoshi faction anyways. :P

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I have one more idea that bears mentioning. I think that it would be cool to have an industro-metalic, Frank Klepaki-like version of the Doom Ship theme!

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I have one more idea that bears mentioning. I think that it would be cool to have an industro-metalic, Frank Klepaki-like version of the Doom Ship theme!

I love it. When will you be done? :D

 

Neither of us on the team are musicians by any means. So we'd definitely need a musician or five with some talent and not some Fruity Loop newbie.

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I have one more idea that bears mentioning. I think that it would be cool to have an industro-metalic, Frank Klepaki-like version of the Doom Ship theme!

I love it. When will you be done? :D

 

Neither of us on the team are musicians by any means. So we'd definitely need a musician or five with some talent and not some Fruity Loop newbie.

 

I unfortunately have no knowledge of how to do this, but I guarantee there are enough great video game music artists on the web who will be happy to when this mod gets further along and becomes well-known. I can maybe play a bit of what I want it to sound like on guitar, though I suck at playing guitar.

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