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Hello All , my name is Steve and been playing this great mod for the last three and half years every week with my uncle lorry across network, I did mean to join sooner as I'm always reading through the forums keeping up to date with latest news and patches .

I have some problems with latest MOD v3 and wondered if you kind gents would give a little input as it may be something i doing wrong ?

 

I normally play allies and uncle lorry plays Germans but since you have released v3 I keep kicking his arse (and I mean really kicking his arse) very easily !!! he would lose his rag quiet often :D

So we swapped sides and i went Germany (for the last five weeks) and now it is me who's arse is being kicked .

 

there seems to be a balancing problem between allies and Germans ? especially in the mid to late game play ? would anyone be kind enough to comment ??

 

many thanks in advance

 

Steve

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Dear gigglywiggly: could you please email a replay to phoibATderelictstudiosDOTnet? We'll look at it, maybe there is a balancing problem (or maybe the mod has become too much like history ;) ).

 

Also, would you and Uncle Lorry be interested in becoming beta testers?

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What tanks are you building? Could you describe the scenarios that are happening? The best way to counter various tactics is to look to history to see how the sides actually approached the problem.

 

 

In the mean time try the following tactics:

 

 

For all levels of play it is important to keep infantry spread out in front of any tank formations. They take shots that would otherwise be blowing up tanks and reducing your return fire. Building barracks near the front lines is essential to both keep your forces supplies with infantry and to repair tanks when they get damaged (yes tanks can be repaired at the barracks :) ). Reparing tanks, especially veterans, is very important since it is free and means you get more value from each one.

 

Mid game - build lots of StuG3s with the long gun. Get the Panthers when they are available and keep them back behind the main line to make use of their superior fire power. Buy a small group of hummels to blast concentrations of his tanks. Make sure you have the full stack of Stukas recharging or charged. In the mid game the allies have tough tanks like the Churchill as well as fast tanks like the Stuart and Sherman 75mms but the German long 75mm is a match for them.

 

In the late game the Allies get access to the Firefly and Comet which have very long range. This is made even worse for their enemies with the advance to APDS ammo. They will make short work of German tanks and can run very fast. They key to beating the Allies in the late game is to focus onto their weakness - the build time and HP of these killer tanks. You need try using the Hummels to pick them off at long range. They are pretty good but won't win the war on their own.

 

The main secret weapon is the Hetzer. Buildable at the command centre, you can spam these things. They have the 75mm gun and only cost 600. They build really fast too. They are a great meat shield for the heavier tanks. Add StuG3s into the mix which do a similar job and then focus maybe 40-50% of your tank production onto Panthers. The Befehl Panther with the antenna will buff all nearby troops and is a major asset. The late game Pz5 is substantially cheaper than the Firefly and has good range and fire power too. It's not as mobile but overall is a more balanced tank and with a good "meat shield" of Hetzers you should do well. Finally you need to get some long ranged guns. The Tiger has the 88mm FlaK cannon as its main cannon but this was actually upgraded. It is seen on 3 units in the game, the Ferdinand, the Tiger 2 and the Jadgpanther. The Jadgpanther is the best option since it is the cheapest and also is available without needing to sink any tech points into the heavy tank branch. The upgraded 88 can match the range of the Fireflies and hits so hard that they will die in just a couple of hits.

 

The Tiger 2 is also an amazing tank when kept behind a meat shield. It has the most HP and its turret is also a great asset. If you can get these units up to high veterancy levels their long range will help you greatly in picking off the enemy tanks. Finally don't neglect the Stukas. If the enemy goes hard into air or gets a lot of light AA then you may want to switch up to Ar234s. TBH it's not a great loss, the medium armour of allied tanks makes them very vulnerable to air strikes.

 

This is the key to undermining the Allies, using air power, the Il2 and Pe2s for the Soviets and the Stukas or Ar234s for the Germans, is very effective in downsizing their tank numbers and once they loose significant numbers of them they will really struggle to rebuild. What you really want to do is to force your opponent to start spamming deliveries from the US. The Hetzer/Panther combo is very very good at tying up the US tanks. Their tanks lack the range to snipe at German heavy tanks and your long ranged Jadgpanthers/Tiger2s will have a field day taking out the few Pershings.

Be wary of Calliopes though. The best counter to large German tank forces is this deadly missile spammer, it can fire without needing to set up like the Katyusha and is much tougher than the flimsy Studebaker trucks so they are very tricky to knock out. A group of 5 or 6 can really mess up your formations.

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Hello All , my name is Steve and been playing this great mod for the last three and half years every week with my uncle lorry across network, I did mean to join sooner as I'm always reading through the forums keeping up to date with latest news and patches .

I have some problems with latest MOD v3 and wondered if you kind gents would give a little input as it may be something i doing wrong ?

 

I normally play allies and uncle lorry plays Germans but since you have released v3 I keep kicking his arse (and I mean really kicking his arse) very easily !!! he would lose his rag quiet often :D

So we swapped sides and i went Germany (for the last five weeks) and now it is me who's arse is being kicked .

 

there seems to be a balancing problem between allies and Germans ? especially in the mid to late game play ? would anyone be kind enough to comment ??

 

many thanks in advance

 

Steve

 

In addition to korona:

 

 

First off, the game is setup in a certain way. Germany was superior at the start of wo2, with better infantry and better organization. The allies were defensive, with only brittain remaining after a short while. The russians were chaotic, with loads of poorly organized armies with outdated units. So germany can gain a lot of ground early on with blitzkrieg tactics, because their inf is better, their tanks are mechanically better - aka they are faster, better turn rate etc, and they got good close airsupport.

 

Early on,

 

You are supposed to use this to gain more ground than your enemies, and this is indeed possible. The allies have very slow tanks, that are well armored true, but easy targets for AT-guns and outflanking + inf. The allies in early period rely on maginot and r35 to hold the line, defending a small territory. The russians are blind, and got loads of crap. Of course, on very small maps, this could lead to allied advantage, if you cant stop the building of maginot.

 

Mid

 

Then the war changes slowly, with better allied units becoming available, but still their production is very slow compared to soviet and axis. The war really starts to change once the soviets gain cheap t-34 mass production and the allies sherman deliveries. The german combination of stug3 and pzIV from that time in the game is certainly outclassed by those, but not by that much. But if you did well enough early on, you should have a money advantage.

 

Also, the germans don't rely on tanks entirely, and blitz is not a tank game pur sang, you got flak 88 and pak40 at that time, that can take care of any allied tanks.

 

The churchill problem: the allies can build cheap churchills in mid game, with enormous armor. Your stug and pz4 have a hard time coping with them. But do note, churchils are slow, vulnerable to inf spam, do not do alot of damage, and are particulary vulerable to the pak40 - or - the marder. Use marders to cope with heavy tanks. They are truely excellent.

 

 

Late

 

 

In the late war, germans switch to heavy tanks like tigers and panthers. They cost more, got more armor, and do more damage. However, cost effective in the tanks vs tank sense, they are not as good as t-34 or shermans. And they are vulnerable to long ranged high powered fireflies and comets. But you are not meant to use them in front line capacity, they operate behind other forces, their huge armor is so they can survive a hit or 2 and withdraw, and you are meant to keep them alive making them elite. Those are the tanks that are meant to use their long range to pick off enemy high value targets. The german spammable units, like the stug and pzIV, are now more and more just cannon fodder, with the pzIV being particulary weak in armor but good in firepower - better use stugs to take the punishment, and pzIV to flank with.

The allies ofcourse get mass deliveries, and super air power. The sherman is an excellent medium tank, fast, well armored, and fires fast. Better than any medium stuff the germans have, true. And the complementing comets and FFs, well you know.

 

Do note, the allied super tanks like firefly and comet, have a crucial weakness. They are fast, with super firepower, but they have weak armor, build very slow, and the upgrade makes them in cost par with the jagdpanther/tiger. The german panther however, only costs 1300, can be mass produced, have the same range, less firepower but more armor.

 

Try countering air by pressing the X key to spread your troops, or use fighter cover. Also, vs bombers, upgrade to jets, they really own bombers badly.

 

Also try building everything as a german, all units are really vital, the pz3 late model is an excellent support tank, and can be produced quickly. The mix of marders, pz3, pz4, ferdinands and tigers really kicks some ass. Try using a bulk force of mixed medium units, and a numbered (ctrl 1-10) force of heavy tanks than you use to pick off FFs and comets. Use the cheap pak 40 in a mobile capacity, when you are fighting deploy them near the fight. Same for 88s.

 

 

note: the hetzer i find very disappointing korona, they are slow, hinder movements of other units trying to get into firing position, got limited range, die alot, and never kill anything but the weakest units. I got a lot of trouble getting them to shoot anything, usually they are dead before they do or the battle is long won.

 

 

THAT SAID:

 

 

You are right. The allies in end game, are better than the germans, and slightly better than soviets. Why? Couple of reasons.

 

 

 

Control

 

You only have 2 hands, and can micro only so much. Time = management = valuable = live or die. On automatic mode (aka non manual targeting), the allied tanks out perform the germans, because they fire faster, move faster, and their fire is more effective, same goes for russian t-34/85. The german super heavy tanks often waste their shot shooting infantry, or 1 target at the same time, and the range they have is completely wasted cause when attacking on (ctrl-click) automatic mode they only fire in their own sight range. They are really supposed to use their range, and fire only on higher value targets, and fire on separate targets, but with 10.000 units in the field, you can't control them.

Ofcourse FFs and comets have the same problem, but they fire faster, move faster, and thus are much more economic to use in controlled larger groups, as opposed to king tigers, which are only effective if you fire 2 at the time on 1 target. When you select a group of FFs you can quickly go from target to target killing them, but a group of kt's or ferdinands turn slower, and waste more shot.

 

So - on paper (stats), allies and germans par somewhat, in reality, control is a big issue. This comes to play when large numbers of units are involved (Allies and soviets got more time to spend on other things). In order to make your german tanks effective, you need to spend more time controlling them than your opponent does, time he can use to do other stuff, like flanking, attacking elsewhere, using air etc - if you choose to use automatic targetting and spend your time like your opponent does, your tanks lose. So either way, you loose.

 

 

 

Effective fire

 

see above.

 

 

 

Complexity

 

The germans have a complex production that requires alot more management. Very crudely said: For allies its just spamm shermans from CC + heavy tanks from factories - then send em off. The germans however need to mix their units well, and build everything, and manage all units alot more, deploying stuff etc. Coming out of 6 factories, this is harder.

 

 

Complexity in the field

 

The german army is made up of alot of different units in order to be effective. However, units like stug and hetzer and others are a bit slow, turn slow, and move awkwardly, as opposed to pzIV, shermans and t-34. So your combi army, is hindered some by its comprising units. They hinder movement. 1 way to cope with this, is grouping similar units only. This would ofcourse gives you a few more groups to control, and thus waste micro, and partly negate the complementary faculties the units posses.

 

The allies can just use groups of mediums like shermans, and support them with FF's and comets. Simply produced and simply managed. They can send their bunches of shermans etc in different directions, and only manage their ffs and comets personally. Same for the russians, however they like the germans need to spend time managing their is2, isu152 and isu100. The germans can't with their stugs and panthers, tigers and ferdinands. They need to manage all units.

 

 

Artillery

 

Allies and russian deployed artillery way outclasses german arty, and the mobile variants are cheaper and produced faster than the hummel, and more expendable.

 

 

 

 

In summary: the germans are supposed to use their early advantage, which they have in speed and quality (not firepower or armor) to gain enough of an advantage to also win the end game. The russians and allies are meant to cope and hold on until releaved by better spammable units. On paper, playing yourself 1 on 1, the sides would par. The germans having more ground and money would still not be able to break the allied and soviet cheaper spamm, and the allies and russians wouldn't be able to break the german advantage. So the best general wins. But the control issue tips the balance in favor of the more simple sides.

 

 

Final note: the issue is not super drastic, a better general can still beat his oppent with germans, but when you are closer, it really becomes and issue.

 

 

 

 

 

If you want you can send us a couple or replays, or join hamachi and i can observe directly. Only available during weekends though. Read the mp guide for more info.

 

 

 

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Regarding the Hetzer, it is probably a little worse for the cost than the cheapest StuGs but they build twice as fast. Since the StuG 3 is only availible at the Alkett works I think the Hetzer is a must. They are much better value than say the Pz3s.

The issue with the Hetzer is less its speed (25 vs the StuG's 27) but more its light-medium armour class vs the StuG IIIs medium armour + skirts, and slightly higher HP. Against a mass of Shermans the extra HP does matter since the allies have a high rate of fire but lower hitting power. They wear down each target with a hail of shots so there is very little overkill. Against the fireflies and comets however, overkill is often very overwhelming and the StuG's extra cost and build time is more of a downside than their better protection is an asset.

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The germans having more ground and money would still not be able to break the allied and soviet cheaper spamm, and the allies and russians wouldn't be able to break the german advantage. So the best general wins. But the control issue tips the balance in favor of the more simple sides.

 

Final note: the issue is not super drastic, a better general can still beat his oppent with germans, but when you are closer, it really becomes and issue.

 

And we do know this from extensive beta testing. Better generals do win, but when you get someone on par with eachother, games can last a freaking long time.

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Good analysis by DH and Korona. I would add this:

 

Germans are the faction to beat during the early stage of the game because of 3 factors:

1) Their 88mm AT guns can massacre any group of early tanks

2) Stuka's squadron give the Germans the best ground support at this stage of the game

3) When used correctly the German Paradrops are really effective to get the lead with cash by capturing cities.

 

Germans are the faction to beat at mid-game because of 2 factors:

1) Tiger availability: Soon after the Soviets increased their T-34 production, the Germans get access to the Tiger I & to Stug III G. At this period (we are at the end of 1942) Germans have many good Pz III L and some Stug IIIGs to use in front of the Tigers. No other faction have the German firepower at this stage. If the Tigers are used as sniper, they can blow up opponents tanks one by one. From august to december 42 the Germans build only 68 Tigers wich wasn't enough to have an impact on the wide Eastern Front. But this is different in Blitz where maps are relatively small and where every unit are important.

2) Diversity: Germany is the faction with the most wide range of option to conduct war wich make them really hard to guess right for their oppoenents. It could be played by focusing on mass production (StugIIIs, Panzer IVs, StugIVs, Hetzer later) or on heavier tanks (Tigers, Panthers, Jagdpanthers, Ferdinands, Kingtigers, Maus), or by mixing both. Germans have no great weakness, they have decent or good strength on the ground and by air.

 

Germany is the faction to beat on latest stage of the game because of 4 factors:

1) No other faction can make non stop damage to opponent base without micromanaging and with a minimal amount of money. The V-1 is more than a psychological weapon. A small group of these flying bomb will hurt the enemy base whatever it is located and force him to use ressources and time to counter this harassment.

2) Like Korona and DH said the Hetzers are a late game bonus for the Germans cause they wont interrupt any of the other factories, allowing the Germans to build solid reserve divisions to support the front line units.

3) No other tank in game has a better "firepower vs cost" ratio than the Panther G. When you add one Befhel to the mixt you can have something really special here. But the "D" and "A" models are not the models you want, they cost more and took too much time to build.

4) The Luftwaffe jets are simply in a class beyond the competition. Contrary to the real Reich, the German player has the chance to stop any Allies bombing raids by building all the different jets he can.

 

Ok thats it for now...in my next post i'll show you why the Soviets are the faction to beat at every stage of the game ;)

Edited by Neo

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Thanks Guys for all the useful tactics and information it has been a great help :D but even when applying these great tactics I'm still losing pretty badly :( I've tried all ways as mentioned above but he is still whoophing my arse :angry: perhaps i just better get used to the idea he's a much better general than me :(

 

Couple of things no-one has mentioned yet is the "spy" capability of the allies? this is such a huge tactical advantage of being able to plan your attack and defense, based upon whats coming at you and on smaller maps you can open up the entire map ,the Germans on the other hand ,have nothing to counteract against this and get a spy plane which to be honest with you all, it is pretty useless, it's very easy shotdown

 

In my humble opinion "the Spy" should be either taken out completely and allies given a spy plane like the Germans or the Germans are able to counter "the spy" with making it detectable with certain units .

Reason :With the map uncovered with the use of spys ,the Allies can plan and attack using planes and artillery before German units units are in formation, it's ok to say use stugs backed up with panzers etc etc but when Allies have map uncovered he seeing whats coming very early :rolleyes: first he sends in fighters and then p-47 (i think) which blow the cr*p out of most tanks ,by the time my army gets to its destination I've lost two thirds of it !!! "ok ok" you are going to say back up formation with fighters and flak 88's and press x key to spead formation out (which i have tried) but those damn p-47 take so much damage to knock em out they just deliver the payload an go !!! what do the Germans get ??? a very slow stuka that is very vulnerable !!! this is taken from the manual "The Ju 87 is a Stuka (dive bomber). It is designed to fly in a steep arc towards its target gaining tremendous speed and being almost impossible to shoot down" well I feel the game represents this poorly or perhaps the Hs 129 might be my saving grace !!! can't see this does to much damage either ,seems to fly around in circles for about what seems to be 30 seconds takes a shed load of damage from flak but when the fighter's move in a few good bursts from their cannons and there down :angry: and as always money is very tight on the German side on average Allies collect 1.6 times more money than the german side!!!

 

All this is stacked up against the German side ,while it may be historically correct that the Germans were weaker towards the end of the war, it's still a game and as in all games there needs to be a good balance between the different factions.

that said, what a cracking game you guys have produced ,normally i get bored very quickly but this game has kept me and uncle Lorry going now for about 3 1/2 yrs.

So a very big thank you to you all, for all your hard work which really does shine through .....

 

Just out of pure interest, I know you guys must play against each other but who do you favor playing the most ? Russians ,Axis or Allies? and how many good wins have you had playing that faction ?

 

As always best wishes

Giggly wiggly

 

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Thanks Guys for all the useful tactics and information it has been a great help :D but even when applying these great tactics I'm still losing pretty badly :( I've tried all ways as mentioned above but he is still whoophing my arse :angry: perhaps i just better get used to the idea he's a much better general than me :(

 

Couple of things no-one has mentioned yet is the "spy" capability of the allies? this is such a huge tactical advantage of being able to plan your attack and defense, based upon whats coming at you and on smaller maps you can open up the entire map ,the Germans on the other hand ,have nothing to counteract against this and get a spy plane which to be honest with you all, it is pretty useless, it's very easy shotdown

 

 

// The spy does give allies an incredible advantage. However, the germans have snipers like everyone else to scout. Spies can be detected like snipers by bikes, other snipers, russian small tanks, etc. Though in the middle of war, its very annoying and time consuming to go spy hunting. Best to deploy alot of snipers here and there, on guard mode. I agree, spies are too good, specially cause u can meke 5 - should be 1. The german spy plane does well enough, its not often shot down. Also allied spies are only available later in the game.

 

 

 

In my humble opinion "the Spy" should be either taken out completely and allies given a spy plane like the Germans or the Germans are able to counter "the spy" with making it detectable with certain units .

Reason :With the map uncovered with the use of spys ,the Allies can plan and attack using planes and artillery before German units units are in formation, it's ok to say use stugs backed up with panzers etc etc but when Allies have map uncovered he seeing whats coming very early :rolleyes: first he sends in fighters and then p-47 (i think) which blow the cr*p out of most tanks ,by the time my army gets to its destination I've lost two thirds of it !!! "ok ok" you are going to say back up formation with fighters and flak 88's and press x key to spead formation out (which i have tried) but those damn p-47 take so much damage to knock em out they just deliver the payload an go !!!

 

 

what do the Germans get ??? a very slow stuka that is very vulnerable !!! this is taken from the manual "The Ju 87 is a Stuka (dive bomber). It is designed to fly in a steep arc towards its target gaining tremendous speed and being almost impossible to shoot down" well I feel the game represents this poorly or perhaps the Hs 129 might be my saving grace !!! can't see this does to much damage either ,seems to fly around in circles for about what seems to be 30 seconds takes a shed load of damage from flak but when the fighter's move in a few good bursts from their cannons and there down :angry: and as always money is very tight on the German side on average Allies collect 1.6 times more money than the german side!!!

 

 

//Stukas are early war planes, their dive is unstoppable, but not their approach, obviously. They are somewhat slow, and can't maneuvre well. And you are probably using them wrong? You can call them in very close to the battle, then order them to attack. During their flight to the battle they can't be intercepted. They are meant to operate in clear skies by surprise or with air support. Replace them with the new bombers later on.

 

 

//Stukas rule the early game, are still usefull mid game but have less impact on the game, and in the final fase are obsolete.

 

 

All this is stacked up against the German side ,while it may be historically correct that the Germans were weaker towards the end of the war, it's still a game and as in all games there needs to be a good balance between the different factions.

that said, what a cracking game you guys have produced ,normally i get bored very quickly but this game has kept me and uncle Lorry going now for about 3 1/2 yrs.

So a very big thank you to you all, for all your hard work which really does shine through .....

 

Just out of pure interest, I know you guys must play against each other but who do you favor playing the most ? Russians ,Axis or Allies? and how many good wins have you had playing that faction ?

 

As always best wishes

Giggly wiggly

 

If you want, you or your uncle can play me. Axis me vs allies you. Or ill watch a game. We play on hamachi, see mp guide for more.

This way we can sort out what the problems are, and seeing other people play might give you an idea what to do.

Edited by DirtyHarryTAT

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Thank you DirtyHarryTAT B) Thats a great idea , me and uncle Lorry normally play on a Tues evening about eight o'clock ish I would love to just watch the two of you play and see where I'm going wrong ;) we are both on hamachi as well so that should be fine ,if Tuesday is a problem let me know what day is best for you and we'll try and work it in , failing that ....... if you have any battles coming up soon would you mind if i can be a spectator ????

 

Best wishes

 

Gigglywiggly

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Hi,

 

add me on xfire or msn for better coordination. xfire: DirtyHarryTAT, msn madeliefjejsaw@yahoo.com.

 

Usually i can't play during the week, since i gotta work, but you can always ask, depends on my schedule. Also i live in Europe - meaning its 7-9 hours later than US.

 

On Saturdays i usually can play.

 

I don't have any recent replays, haven't played blitz in 3 months or so, so old ones are incompatible by now.

 

Gr. DirtyHarry

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Hi,

 

add me on xfire or msn for better coordination. xfire: DirtyHarryTAT, msn madeliefjejsaw@yahoo.com.

 

Usually i can't play during the week, since i gotta work, but you can always ask, depends on my schedule. Also i live in Europe - meaning its 7-9 hours later than US.

 

On Saturdays i usually can play.

 

I don't have any recent replays, haven't played blitz in 3 months or so, so old ones are incompatible by now.

 

Gr. DirtyHarry

 

we live in uk so that should not be a problem :D what is xfire ? I've never heard of it ? but i'll google it and find out B)

 

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I need to come on more often, anyways. Try using a buffer zone similar to the one harry demonstrated in his tutorial video. Basically just use the engineers from the barracks to setup hedghogs mines and guard towers, this combined with a few tanks and some well placed AT guns can really wear down an assaulting force. Use the hedgehogs to slow down large tank groups and force your opponent to go around into a mine field stopping his force dead in its tracks. If you're good at placing at guns and flak they can easily knock out a large force while the hedges slow them down.

 

Don,t forget to build light tanks, though easy to kill and barley do much damage, the disable aspect is vital and easily overlooked. Not to mention many of the light tanks have machine guns which will cut his infantry down in no time. Then use self-propelled guns/artillery, look for his spearhead and shoot a volley off at it, 3 hummels can make all the difference. A good general will then try to move his tanks away from the incoming fire, and sometimes right into another force. But always keep your self-prpolled arty on the move, or it becomes prey to an air strike.

 

USE THE RPG SOLDIERS, they can kill anything without rpg skirts, which many allied tanks do not have. thought the panzer wefer can't throw up the volume of fire that katyushas and callopies can, they can still kill just about any tank the rocket lands on. Also give the strum tiger a try, it can disable a group of tanks if they are close to each other.

 

so,

  1. Minefields, cover large area and will disable any tank unfortunate to wonder over them
  2. Hedge hogs create a unique obstacle, when natural choke points aren't available, make your own!
  3. Guard towers have a good sized view range, can detect stealth (snipers and spies) and have a MG to kill any infantry who come too close
  4. AT guns, if placed well, behind hedge hogs and minefields can easily destroy a large tank force
  5. Self-Propelled artillery can shoot then scoot away from harm while they reload, not to mention the power they pack and the psychological effects it has on your opponent

 

Blitz is all about experimenting with the best tactic to over come your opponent, if a certain play style isn't working for you, try something else.

 

Also, harry just gives the rest of us a headache, but good luck if you ever play him, you'll need it.

Edited by Comrade Raptorkov

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DirtyHarry, Korona, Feuersturm and Raptorkov are among the good players in Blitz...Now you have advices from the best, to you to show you can learn faster than the Pavlov's dog :P

Edited by Neo

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